Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

d_cee · Post by **d_cee** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:59 am

Hi YL

I think we were posting at the same time

Although I think 'Content first' is desirable where possible wrapping the left sidebar up with the content doesn't sound like a great idea. Don't know why, maybe it's just the extra markup.

As for the fonts. I think our way with percentages and ems is as good or better than keyword and percentages. It makes the template very easy to style. However, it may not be so easy for someone who's unfamiliar with the template so I should say it made the template very easy for me to style. The only way to find out would be to give the template to someone else and see what they come up with. I had wondered about getting other users to contribute coloursets but I don't really know if anybody would bother. I remember for the default theme contest there was only Garvin, Carl and myself who entered.

cheers

Dave

Post by **yellowled** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:44 pm

d_cee wrote:Although I think 'Content first' is desirable where possible wrapping the left sidebar up with the content doesn't sound like a great idea. Don't know why, maybe it's just the extra markup.

Agreed. Plus, we have the skiplinks which makes content first sort of expendable.

d_cee wrote:However, it may not be so easy for someone who's unfamiliar with the template so I should say it made the template very easy for me to style.

I think the same would be the case if we switched to keywords and percentages. This is really just a question of what you're used to. The important thing is not to use px values for font-sizes so the fonts remain scalable, and that's covered.

d_cee wrote:I had wondered about getting other users to contribute coloursets but I don't really know if anybody would bother. I remember for the default theme contest there was only Garvin, Carl and myself who entered.

I really think three colorsets are enough, and you have done a great job with all of them. I know I promised to do one, but bughunting and life simply got in the way

(And by the way, I didn't contribute to the default theme contest back then because I didn't think I could keep up with you guys

)

YL

Post by **Don Chambers** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:05 pm

Looks like you 2 have been busy this morning. I need to fully digest everything that has been posted here before I can offer any meaningful input.

However, I have a probable fix for Dave: serendipitySideBarTitle - position:relative to fix the left padding issue. Works in my IE6. Might even fix your green colorset, but I do not see that online so no way for me to know.

As far as this other stuff, like I said, I need to dig deeper. My instinctive answer for most of it is, "if it is not significantly better/cleaner/faster/smaller than what already exists, why bother"?

As mentioned before, my main s9y install deals with an annual boating event. That is coming up in about 2-1/2 weeks, so it is getting most of my attention right now. Not sure how much I will be able to contribute until that is over, but I'll keep trying.

d_cee · Post by **d_cee** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:09 pm

Hi Guys

I've zipped up the blue and green coloursets - you can download them here http://tinyurl.com/2rqdd3.

Maybe you could both install them and try them out in your bulletproof installations. The IE bugs I mention earlier will need resolving - and if between us we can find any unstyled elements in the coloursets I can then get them finished. Having done these two new ones, I know I've missed a few elemnets in the steel colourset I did earlier - I might do a new graphically styled colourset to replace this steel one as I've had a better idea anyway

cheers

Dave

Post by **yellowled** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:41 pm

Don Chambers wrote:As far as this other stuff, like I said, I need to dig deeper. My instinctive answer for most of it is, "if it is not significantly better/cleaner/faster/smaller than what already exists, why bother"?

You do, however, realize that at some point we have to stop digging an release this thing?

Seriously: It's probably never going to be 100% perfect in any browser on any platform in any resolution ... at some point, we'll have to draw a line, especially considering this is a framework, i.e. it will be customized further by us and other people, which might reveal problems we're not even thinking of at the moment ...

YL

Post by **yellowled** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:48 pm

d_cee wrote:Maybe you could both install them and try them out in your bulletproof installations.

Will do. Might take me until Thursday to find time for this, however.

d_cee wrote:I might do a new graphically styled colourset to replace this steel one as I've had a better idea anyway

Okay, so we can pretty much ignore that, right?

YL

d_cee · Post by **d_cee** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:59 pm

Hi

it amused me to see that all three of us are online at the moment

However, I have a probable fix for Dave: serendipitySideBarTitle - position:relative to fix the left padding issue. Works in my IE6.

Thnaks Don, I'll try that tonight after the football.

You do, however, realize that at some point we have to stop digging an release this thing?

I think we're not too far away. Some 'instructions for use' might be a good addition.

I might do a new graphically styled colourset to replace this steel one as I've had a better idea anyway

Okay, so we can pretty much ignore that, right?

Yep, I'd like to do something that matches the Blue and Green sets for style but shows off what the template is capable of. I don't think the steel one does that so I've gone back to the drawing board

Missing elements - just let me know whenever - if there are any.

cheers

Dave

Post by **yellowled** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:20 am

Disclaimer: I have only taken a glance at it so far, my bulletproof "base code" in my xampp installation seems to be out of date (updating later), and as Don already reported, xampp doesn't seem to be too reliable anyway.

d_cee wrote:If you take a look in IE6 or 7 you'll see that where a sidebar title runs onto 2 lines the left padding doesn't take. In FF or Safari it's fine.

I experienced that differently. In my xampp, the padding didn't take for some sidebar titles, but that didn't seem to have anything to do with them being 2 lines long or not ... very weird, I have to check that again later using an up-to-date bulletproof.

d_cee wrote:The other error only shows on the Green colourset. The sidebar content doesn't butt up to bottom of the sidebar title in IE - there's a small margin between them.

Haven't checked that out yet.

However, I experienced something I had seen earlier and remembered to be solved: I don't get scroll bars in IE 5 (yeah, I know, we're not bothering; but no scroll bars? at all?).

YL

Post by **Don Chambers** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 4:18 am

d_cee wrote:If you take a look in IE6 or 7 you'll see that where a sidebar title runs onto 2 lines the left padding doesn't take. In FF or Safari it's fine.

Yellowled wrote:I experienced that differently. In my xampp, the padding didn't take for some sidebar titles, but that didn't seem to have anything to do with them being 2 lines long or not ... very weird, I have to check that again later using an up-to-date bulletproof.

I already took care of that, I think, with this:

However, I have a probable fix for Dave: serendipitySideBarTitle - position:relative to fix the left padding issue. Works in my IE6.

Not sure if that is a total solution or not. I'm holding onto this effort by a tiny thread. So sad. 9:15pm here and this is the first time I am checking s9y forums. So buried with other things right now guys - I feel guilty. Want very much to keep moving forward, but life seems to keep getting in the way (yes, I hear J. Lennon in those words!).

Something I have not mentioned yet is that I really think BP needs to come with an admin code base too, dontcha think? I have never done one, but it does not look too terrible difficult.

Anyway, I cannot wait for the next few weeks to pass so I can dedicate a bunch more of my time to this again! Need to get that template I started either converted to BP, or at least out in the open!!!!

Post by **yellowled** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:18 pm

Don Chambers wrote:I already took care of that, I think, with this:
However, I have a probable fix for Dave: serendipitySideBarTitle - position:relative to fix the left padding issue. Works in my IE6.
Oops, gotta incorparate that into the base code once I'm back at home.

Don Chambers wrote:So buried with other things right now guys - I feel guilty.

Don't - you have done so much for BP, you deserve a timeout

About the admin code base ... hmmm. I have never done that, either, but it sounds like an interesting challenge. I'll see what I can do.

YL

d_cee · Post by **d_cee** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:08 pm

Hi Guys

just a quick update - I've been working on the final (purple) colourset which you can take a look at on davidddot.com. This is to replace the steel 'graphic' colourset. I guess I'll be finished midweek. Are there any changes or additions to the blue and green sets?

cheers

Dave

Post by **yellowled** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:37 pm

d_cee wrote:I've been working on the final (purple) colourset which you can take a look at on davidddot.com. This is to replace the steel 'graphic' colourset.

Hm, I was just wondering (the purple one looks great, BTW

): how does this look like if we set the colorset to default?

d_cee wrote:Are there any changes or additions to the blue and green sets?

I was looking at those again just now. Tricky little fucker. First of all: position: relative for SideBarTitle doesn't do anything in my IE6. I have change the padding: 0.5em for .serendipitySideBarItem to margin: 0.5em (which I think it should be anyway; I'm starting to lose track of out code somehow

) in style.css. If you do that and disable the padding/margin for .serendipitySideBarTitle and SideBarContent, you'll - hopefully - see that this is the point where we need to dig. At least in my IE6, disabling the padding for SideBarContent solves the problem with the 2-line titles, which I think wasn't related to them being two lines long anyway ... and now everybody's confused

I haven't come up with a fix for it yet, but I'm gonna work on this tonight. However, this looks like a really tricky bug, so maybe we'll just have to live with the fact that the green style looks a tad weird in IE6 (don't you dare take a look at it in IE5.01/Win) ... well, we'll see.

YL

d_cee · Post by **d_cee** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:05 pm

Hi YL

Hm, I was just wondering (the purple one looks great, BTW Smile): how does this look like if we set the colorset to default?

Glad you like the purple

I wondered whether I should do a new default style - something that would be an easy starting point for users to style.

As for the green bug - I can always change the code slightly so that it looks the same as IE6 in FF and IE7 - might be easier.

I'm off out to see James Taylor tonight so I'll check back and see if you sorted it when I get back later - or in the morning.

cheers

Dave

Post by **yellowled** » Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:39 pm

d_cee wrote:I wondered whether I should do a new default style - something that would be an easy starting point for users to style.

Well, I think an easy starting point is a matter of taste

Some people may prefer to start with an empty sheet of paper, which is what we should have if I remove the temporary test colors from style.css. Personally, I think that's the best idea, especially since we have the colorsets.

d_cee wrote:As for the green bug - I can always change the code slightly so that it looks the same as IE6 in FF and IE7 - might be easier.

I really want to have a closer look at it to (maybe) be able to determine what it is that makes this so tricky to figure out. I'll probably have the time to do that on Tuesday. I'll report back if I figure it out earlier

YL

Post by **Don Chambers** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:08 am

Guys - I'm lost. What exactly is the current issue? Thought we had everything cleared up? No? Sorry about my confusion - have been buried with other things.