Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

[Don Chambers]

Not sure the order of sidebars or content will make any difference. YL's various sidebar configurations do that, and I tested them, and they made no difference that I could detect.

The banner/sitenav/footer WIDTH issue only shows up for percentage widths, and only in IE. At least, I think so.

The current footer issue with Dave's colorset concept (daviddot.com) is being revealed due to the display:inline on the sidebars, but I cannot help but think these things are still related.

Regardless, it is once again, hours spent chasing an IE rendering bug!!!

[yellowled]

I have set "Scale tag font size depending on popularity" to "no" in the sandbox, does that do anything?

A little - the first tag was preventing the width of the rightsidebar from collapsing any narrower than the full width of the tag name "lorem ipsum". Problem still remains otherwise.

So that's probably not it. Hmpf.

One final question YL - within index.tpl, you are rendering the leftsidebar first, then content, then rightsidebar. LSB & Content are floated left, RSB is floated right. Did you ever try LSB(float left), then RSB (float right), then Content (float: none)?

No. The base of the layout was taken from a CSS book, so I just adopted it the way it was since I figured the people writing that book had already tried that

YL

[yellowled]

Not sure the order of sidebars or content will make any difference. YL's various sidebar configurations do that, and I tested them, and they made no difference that I could detect.

Well, some of them do, some of them don't. But since you apparently tested all or most of them, it's probably safe to say the order of sidebars and content is not the weak point of this.

The banner/sitenav/footer WIDTH issue only shows up for percentage widths, and only in IE. At least, I think so.

So it only shows up in IE 6 and 7 currently. Do we have a fix for that already? Because it wouldn't be a problem to add that to ie.css which only those two browsers use.

YL

[Don Chambers]

So it only shows up in IE 6 and 7 currently. Do we have a fix for that already? Because it wouldn't be a problem to add that to ie.css which only those two browsers use.
YL

Yes for IE6, not sure for IE7. No, we do not have a fix.... yet!

[Don Chambers]

Back to Dave's. Here is the current state of your site in IE6: http://chicagoloopcruise.com/library/d_cee_bp_2.jpg

The footer inherited a problem from display:inline on the sidebars. It is now too tall. Setting width: 100% fixes the height issue, but like the sidebar problem, pushes the width of #wrapper too wide, which you can see here: http://chicagoloopcruise.com/library/d_cee_bp_3.jpg (note the #666 body background ) . Setting width:100% on the header produces the same problem. Interesting to note that setting width:100% in #SITENAV, while not solving anything, does NOT push the width of #wrapper too wide. A clue perhaps?

Position: relative on the footer partially solves the problem (removes repeating screw graphics), but does not resolve the height issue.

Height issue resolved for Dave by setting #footer height: 1%. Also solves height issue in BP. Still have width issue, and I am fairly certain it is the IE 100% width problem we thought was solved with all that floating and clearing of the sidebars.

[yellowled]

Height issue resolved for Dave by setting #footer height: 1%. Also solves height issue in BP.

Incorporated into base.css for next version. Not yet uploaded, since it's a minor fix.

Still have width issue, and I am fairly certain it is the IE 100% width problem we thought was solved with all that floating and clearing of the sidebars.

So what do we do, go back to a total width of 99% or something?

YL

[yellowled]

So what do we do, go back to a total width of 99% or something?

Okay, first of all: I found the time to do some testing concerning IE7 and max-width. It seems like IE7 does support max-width correctly (as well as min-width), so we could probably use it, although I have only tested it in a text-based (no graphics) example page ... however, I can't remember what exactly it was that we wanted to use it for

More important: I just read a post in a german blog concerning the IE italics bug including a great, simple fix for that, so I incorporated it into a new version which I'm gonna upload later tonight. I'm not sure whether this solves our last problem, but the fix seemed useful anyway.

YL

[Don Chambers]

Hey guys - I have been buried with other obligations for several days. Not sure how soon I can get back to this. What really sux, is that I will probably need to re-read these recent messages to even know where we were when I left off.

As far as "why" on the max-width - that one is your deal YL. I happen to be a percentage width guy, and see no reason to limit that width when it is available. I also know nothing about IE7 since I never got around to installing it as I am more interested in the limitations of IE6 when it comes to testing.

I don't know anything about the italics IE bug, but will try to read about it. Is it really worth dealing with in BP?

[yellowled]

As far as "why" on the max-width - that one is your deal YL. I happen to be a percentage width guy, and see no reason to limit that width when it is available.

So what do you do if you have an image in the header? I suppose that's what I intented to use it for.

I don't know anything about the italics IE bug, but will try to read about it. Is it really worth dealing with in BP?

Absolutely, especially since the fix is only 3 lines.

YL

[d_cee]

Hi Guys

I've been a bit snowed under too and had no time since I got my laptop back on Thursday! I'll try and get back on the coloursets this week - glad to see there's still a bit of bug blasting going on though so I don't feel like I'm holding things up.

Can't say I've ever heard of the IE italics bug myself.

cheers

Dave

[yellowled]

glad to see there's still a bit of bug blasting going on though

In short, IE has problems computing the width of block elements correctly if they contain italic text. Personally, I use <em> rather often in blog entries, plus some templates use italic text by default (sidebar comments plugin, random quote).

And this is - as far as I remember - the one bug we're after right now: Something which makes certain elements be just a tad wider than they should normally be (in IE).

That's where I saw the connection.

so I don't feel like I'm holding things up.

Nah. I don't feel held up. Well, I do, but by IE, not by you

There's no hurry to release. If this is ready for s9y 1.2, we're still fine.

YL

[Don Chambers]

For photo headers, it would be a fixed width, not a max-width... at least, that is how I would do it. However, max-width still has its uses, so if the IE patch is only 3 lines, might as well just do it.

BTW YL - something you could try rather quickly on our width stuff - remove the banner and footer from #wrapper. They would then need the same width treatment in CSS that #wrapper has, but I wonder if it would work.... Definitely do it to a backup copy as if it does NOT work, you would want to return to the way it is presently structured. Start with just the sandbox scenario (left & right sidebars) rather than every case. If it works for that, you can try it on the others. If not, no need wasting further time.

I would try it on my own, but I am going to be busy today and do not know if I can find the time.

[d_cee]

Hi guys

For photo headers, it would be a fixed width, not a max-width... at least, that is how I would do it. However, max-width still has its uses, so if the IE patch is only 3 lines, might as well just do it.

This is not necessarily true. I sometimes put an image in a flexible width header by adding a gradient down to the background colour. However when I've done this I have not set max or min width. Sorry I've not got a flexible width template to show you but the Joshua Nino 3 template on my themes site shows what I mean about a gradient

cheers

Dave

[Don Chambers]

Hi guys

For photo headers, it would be a fixed width, not a max-width... at least, that is how I would do it. However, max-width still has its uses, so if the IE patch is only 3 lines, might as well just do it.

This is not necessarily true. I sometimes put an image in a flexible width header by adding a gradient down to the background colour. However when I've done this I have not set max or min width. Sorry I've not got a flexible width template to show you but the Joshua Nino 3 template on my themes site shows what I mean about a gradient

cheers

Dave

Good point Dave - that gradient scenario is not one I had considered.

Anyway - I THINK I GOT OUR OTHER PROBLEM SOLVED!!! So ridiculously simple when you think about it.

To re-cap, we have this issue where the header/footer & sitenav could appear to be either too wide, or too narrow relative to the sidebars in IE only when the layout is liquid/percentage based. There are a number of links in this thread that demonstrate the issue.

Check this out - just add overflow: hidden to #wrapper. Problem gone as near as I can tell. I tested it dynamically on the sandbox, as well as YL's own blog. Cures that little white space to the right in your header YL.

Maybe you guys could test this a little deeper, but it looked good to me. Not sure if it is the BEST way to handle the situation, but I can live with it if you guys can, and provided it does not create some other browser issue!!

[yellowled]

Hey guys,

sorry I haven't been around, but as you probably know, moving always takes a little longer than expected. I'm also stuck to my net connection at home since my girlfriend's ISP screwed up moving her connection.

Check this out - just add overflow: hidden to #wrapper. Problem gone as near as I can tell. I tested it dynamically on the sandbox, as well as YL's own blog. Cures that little white space to the right in your header YL.

Just to make this absolutely clear: this, and only this solves our last problem, right? Because I really don't want to 'unwrap' header and footer just to check that out Great job, Don!

So I've added that to base.css, uploaded a new zipfile and updated the sandbox. My ToDo list is empty, although I know we still have to complete those example colorsets David has been working on. Dave, did you already upload a zip for me to do that text-based colorset? Sorry if I missed it.

Anything else I forgot about?

YL