Serendipity 1.0 Release Progress

Discussion corner for Developers of Serendipity.
snafu
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Post by snafu »

Darryl wrote:But... Am I the only one that spots a close resemblance to the Ubuntu logo in it?
yes, and somewhat "star treck" :-)
but thats ok..
carl_galloway
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Post by carl_galloway »

nothing wrong with star trek, bloody good show, and it goes back to the sixties so appeals to all age groups :grinning wildly:
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

I'm a little late, but anyway: why green? I realise it's some (in my opinion) weird webdesign trend to use green with any color it does not (again, in my opinion) match very well with, but as far as I remember, the color for s9y was always blueish/greyish?

Moreover, Carl's new default theme does not feature green at all and since new users will probably see that theme first ...

I like the original logo on the mockup page, but the green basically hurts my eyes :)

(However, that might be just because there's a German proverb which does not translate very well and says something like "green with blue is a combination for pigs" :wink:)

Anyway, if you want to go with the mockup logo, I'd like to suggest a much darker green or using some other color from the new default theme, maybe orange or light blue.
snafu
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Post by snafu »

Image

apart from the color (is there already a color scheme for s9y? sort of corporate design? [that will be a nice work to do, and i would be happy to help there]) this logo version is more reduced, no arrows (they where somewhat agressive to mee too).

it is so simple, that it works well as favicon
Image

if you look closely, you will be able to find the white s, the green 9 and the y too ;-)
YellowLed wrote:Moreover, Carl's new default theme does not feature green at all and since new users will probably see that theme first ...
where to find?
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

snafu wrote:
YellowLed wrote:Moreover, Carl's new default theme does not feature green at all and since new users will probably see that theme first ...
where to find?
http://themes.s9y.org/ of course :) (Choose "Serendipity v3.0" in the template dropdown in the upper left corner if it's not already selected)
garvinhicking
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Post by garvinhicking »

I must say that even though snafu's logo version is much appreciated and good feedback, but I don't really like it as the new logo.

The reason is, that our current logo is not understandable, it does not deliver. The simplified logo from snafu does work as infinity symbol, but IMHO it does no longer propagate as an Atom. It is not really recognizable, and would again lead people into confusion. Which is why I think David's current logo is better, because it IS recognizable. Everyone see's it's an atom.

About the "Why not a globe?" discussion: We've had this also in our internal discussion. Mainly I rejected this because a globe is so plain and so boring, that I didn't want to have it as a logo. The globe is used in so many logos and has no "second meaning", like the atom which relates to our plugin concept and the "small sparkle that creates everything"...

Best regards,
Garvin
# Garvin Hicking (s9y Developer)
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yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

garvinhicking wrote:the atom which relates to our plugin concept and the "small sparkle that creates everything"...
Hmmm. Just a spontaneous idea while reading this ... how about some drop falling into water and spreading waves? Goes well with the color blue, too ... :)
snafu
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Post by snafu »

yes, you are right, this logo is a graphic symbol, which is so much reduced, that it is not more an image.
garvinhicking wrote:Everyone see's it's an atom.
i didn't know that the atom was thought to be the unique symbol of s9y (i had the atom reader in the back of my mind and thought of an double - meaning)

so let's think this way, ok..
jonithrush
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The new logo

Post by jonithrush »

I thought I would add my point of view here for what it is worth. I am not anywhere near as expert in the field of your code stuff etc as everyone else. I was recommended S9y by a friend for building my first personal website and it is very good but can I add the following points I consider to be of importance.

When I first visited your site I thought I had come to the wrong place, unlike word press and net news wire etc, other sites I had visited it was badly laid out and not attractive to a non technical individual like myself doing my own personal website - the type of person you describe on earlier pages. I think the new logo and layout is streets ahead and much improved.

I have to say however for what it is worth I am head of marketing for a very large company in the UK and if we made our decisions in this way we would never get anything done. I understand that you are trying to involve people with it bieng open source etc etc, but it should have been done in a similar way to the voting competition was done a couple of months ago. I don't actually think you will be able to sift out all the various different viewpoints and make any use of them. My view on the logo is favourable, but what is more important is in my opinion decide on the logo stick to it, keep consistency thoughout and market it thereon. Remeber aswell this branding is more for the attraction of new clients, get people who are thinking of a weblog system to stay on your site and / or remember it. Some comments made here would not make a jot of difference to this aim.

Hope this gives a different point of view to this debate.
garvinhicking
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Re: The new logo

Post by garvinhicking »

Jonitrush,

many thanks for your response! Actually, what you replied, was what we were actually looking for.

Basically, David's logo is what we want to stick with. Minor improvements will surely be made thanks ot the feedback we received so far. This posting was mainly made to see if the public can identify itself with our logo idea at least better than the current logo, so that when we switch presentation, nobody is all to offended. I think this thread shows, that this will not be the case, so it is basiccaly an "affirmative" for us proceeding in this direction.

What you describe is actually a weakness in OpenSource projects - Developers/Leaders want to involve the public, but once that is done, the diversity of opinions is hard to bring to a central point.

Many thanks,
Garvin
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dale
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Post by dale »

garvinhicking wrote:The simplified logo from snafu does work as infinity symbol, but IMHO it does no longer propagate as an Atom. It is not really recognizable, and would again lead people into confusion. Which is why I think David's current logo is better, because it IS recognizable. Everyone see's it's an atom.
Why does it have to relate to an atom? I am asking, because the atom is exactly why I disliked the originally proposed logo...
jhermanns
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Post by jhermanns »

Why force an atom into the logo? What I would associate with a logo with an atom would be:

- small
- invisible
- not noticable - can't touch this (tm)
- dangerous (what happens if i accidently fission it?)

and some positive things too:

- can be used to put together anything
- it can be very fast

So with s9y being an atom, electrons would be the themes, s9y's core the protons and neutrons the plugins? What molecules do you build with these s9y-atoms?

I know there was a mail that explained what the initial idea behind the atom logo is, but I didn't find it anymore. All I wanted to say is: IMHO, it really (shouldn't | doesn't have to) be an atom.
gizmola
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Post by gizmola »

These are of course my opinions, but ones that I think have some validity, as I've been involved with s9y as a user and plugin author since around version .05-06.

First off, I agree heartily that branding is important. The efforts you've made are fantastic. The new wiki/portal/logo looks great, but I'll return to that in a minute.

Branding:
I think you're quite right that branding has been an issue. The biggest and long acknowledged problem is that the name of the product has never fully connected with the branding, nor has an attempt been made to connect it.

Let's look at the definition of the word:
ser·en·dip·i·ty Audio pronunciation of "serendipity" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (srn-dp-t)
n. pl. ser·en·dip·i·ties

1. The faculty of making fortunate discoveries by accident.
2. The fact or occurrence of such discoveries.
3. An instance of making such a discovery.

Not the greatest basis for the actual product, since the design and development of serendipity has been from what I can see quite the opposite. However, we also have this note:
We are indebted to the English author Horace Walpole for the word serendipity, which he coined in one of the 3,000 or more letters on which his literary reputation primarily rests. In a letter of January 28, 1754, Walpole says that “this discovery, indeed, is almost of that kind which I call Serendipity, a very expressive word.” Walpole formed the word on an old name for Sri Lanka, Serendip. He explained that this name was part of the title of “a silly fairy tale, called The Three Princes of Serendip: as their highnesses traveled, they were always making discoveries, by accidents and sagacity, of things which they were not in quest of....”
Perhaps if the product was called "Serendip" there might be a successful deconstruction (Serene-Dip?) or perhaps a new more fitting name is in order? These questions should be pondered before the consideration of whether a fancy new logo actually helps with the original problem.

One thing I do know about branding, is that a good logo scales up and down, and many people (myself included) are concerned that the current atom is far too busy to achieve that scalability.

I also don't know how the phrase "Tell the world" crept in there, but in a world where words are cheap, I tend to think that idea ought to be put up for community review as well.

One of the biggest problems that serendipity has always had is the paucity of documentation, the relatively few and somewhat bland templates, and the difficulty of letting users know which of the many plugins do what, and how and when to use them to accomplish what goals. No doubt that this is because so many of us are programmers, we don't mind messing around with plugins, and looking at source code.

Lately the themes issue has been improved a great deal thanks to the efforts of the theme contributors. We finally have http://themes.s9y.org! A great and necessary step that will continue to help boost visibility, and sell serendipity to the people that are looking at the window dressing.

However, from what I can see, the main reason that serendipity has thrived is the developer focus. The core group and the plugin developers have brought s9y.org a long way, and when I argue to people that it's a great blog, my arguments are almost always technical, and often involve pointing out the people from the php community who have been involved with the project, and the people who use it.

What else could be/should be done? A plugin developer portal at http://plugins.s9y.org to match http://themes.s9y.org/ would really help sell it, if my experience with mambo and joomla are any indication. I don't see Serendipity being able to compete with Wordpress or MT etc. without promoting it on its merits, which have always been features & architecture. Those that could care less will now have the pretty pictures and gallery of themes to choose from.

I said I'd return to the logo, so here goes. I agree with many of the other respondents that the atom logo is just too big. For comparison, I've included a bunch of competition logos/mastheads, and threw in a few cms logos for fun. People should definately keep the mambo and joomla logos in mind although I've left them off, as they were already linked to previously (or at least Joomla was).

While I appreciate that a consensus of the "core devs" was obtained, I'm left wondering what the purpose of soliciting input from the community is when the message you're receiving is that the new logo, while a vast improvement over the coffee cup, could still use some work?

Image
snafu
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Post by snafu »

good morning folks, having easter holidays i spent some time for an extra try in reducing the s9y atom logo, please have a look at this one:

Image

i think it is a bit more "crisp" :-)
carl_galloway
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Post by carl_galloway »

Serendipity has had a long tradition of being beta software, and we are about ready to launch version one, very closely followed by version 1.1 with many more user features. As gizmola rightly says, the entire project is known for its developer community which still maintains a personal connection with the userbase. Some of the other packages mentioned have reached the stage where they are no longer developed in this manner, in fact a couple that I can think of seem to have embraced a commercial aspect.

I don't consider myself a developer, I have no knowledge of PHP, and I'm not even a designer. In my professional life I am now a lifecoach, but my background is in senior management. I have a great deal of respect for the developer community who have brought Serendipity as far as its come, but guys you've produced something that average people want to use, and when a stable version one is announced I believe it will open the floodgates of new users, most of whom are likely to be average mom and dad types. Most will care very little about the way we market the product but they will need to see a consistent look and feel and have something to identify Serendipity with.

The logo that Dave has produced is currently the most professional looking logo to have been presented, it won't embarass us. If there are any designers haunting these forums who are able to do better I'd say they are running out of time to show us something, and may I add that this process has been ongoing since March of last year. At some point a line in the sand needs to be drawn. Version one is ready to go, it just needs the green light.

Finally, once a stable version one has been released it is likely that the global web development community will start to notice Serendipity and then the theme selection will no doubt improve to the same level as many of our competing packages. I've been talking to a few of the designers who consistenly win awards and from what they've seen of Serendipity they tell me they're impressed. They are however waiting for version 1.1 before committing any designs.

The line in the sand has now been drawn, and if we delay too much longer then all the publicity and excitement about Serendipity that some of us have been generating recently will be lost.

Carl
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