Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

Skinning and designing Serendipity (CSS, HTML, Smarty)
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

carl_galloway wrote:If our templates give users the option to change navbar links or header images
Did I miss something? Has somebody actually come up with an easy way to change the header image from the template config other than using colorsets or the Kubrick Header plugin? Because in my humble opinion that is something we really need: An easy way for users to change the header image. How many posts do we have in here which basically say "I love the XY template, but I would like to have my own header, how do I do that?". (Lots.)
carl_galloway wrote:This will also tells us what updates we need to add to our existing templates
We should really try and set up some kind of survey on which templates people are actually using. I understand that Garvin wants to keep spartacus tidy, but seriously and without meaning to step on someone's toes - there is a lot of "outdated" stuff on spartacus.
maybe the first priority should be to update every single template to v1.1
Maybe the best solution would be to come up with some sort of todo-list for that: What v1.1-feature should every template offer? Maybe we can even "automate" this process by coming up with some "standard 1.1 code" to be inserted into every template.

YL
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

carl_galloway wrote:@YL, your skills aren't so shabby anymore, you have a solid grasp of css etc
"Anymore", I saw that one :wink: Right now, I'm thinking about maybe spending more time and energy on improving my coding skills like Dave (Javascript and stuff) or learning to use Gimp a little more.
carl_galloway wrote:why don't you give one of these a go as well, for graphics you could either find some clipart or a series of photos that could be cropped to fit.
I might as well give the theme templates a go, i.e. do a sports template with various colorsets/headers. Right now, I'm just leaning back to see where this discussion is headed :)

YL
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

carl_galloway wrote:With 2 column designs users seem to appreciate the ability to swap the sidebar, almost everyone likes the navbar, but very few users seem to want the small about box that I have included in a couple of my templates.
So this means we should probably come up with a solid vanilla code base first, i.e. a layout which has or can have:

- 2 columns, sidebar side switchable
- 3 columns
- customizable navbar (we already have Garvins code for that)
- customizable header graphic (preferably from the theme config, if that's doable)

and works at least in every modern browser on the three major platforms without breaking the layout. I guess our target browsers would be FF 1.5 and 2.0, IE 6 and 7, Safari and Opera 9.
carl_galloway wrote:How about we set a combined objective to produce 200 new designs this year with the majority being traditional style layouts.
:shock: Dude, you realize that some of us still have a day job, right? :wink:

YL
carl_galloway
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Post by carl_galloway »

200 templates does seem like a very large number when you look at it, but like everything in life if you break it down into smaller pieces you realise it could be done. If we stick with standard layout templates, and if we produce a good quality layout with very little styling that our users could customise then I don't see this number being a problem.

200 templates is only 4 per week. By adding a description and resorting spartacus, changing these forums so we have a specific requests forums, and producing a vanilla template for users to produce their own, then if those of us who have done templates can make a commitment to release a few more, we'll be well on the way.

Here is my challenge to those of us who are reading this thread, join me in making a commitment to produce x number of templates this year. Remember we are talking about basic 2 or 3 column templates. I released 24 templates last year (with a day job), this year I can commit to 50.

If anyone can commit to at least one template this year, please add to this thread, and please specify whether you need a vanilla template to work from, and what code needs to be included.

@yellowled, is your sport template a commitment to produce at least one template this year, could we get you to commit to 2 templates, or even 3? And what about the other designers?
cyrano
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Post by cyrano »

hi to all (designers) :-)

i would love to get deeper into making template(s) for s9y.

need to read first all articles about how to code them,
designing is a much smaller problem for me.

I made a few valide templates for another cms called
phpwcms last year, you might have a look here:
--> www.128.weitzelmedia.de

i made them for free under creative common licence.

Guess it is easier to start new one instead of adapting them.

For me advantage of a template is much more the including
of backend and frontend functions than of the design.
Am i right?

all best, will watch this tread.
cyrano
regards cyrano
-------------------------
www.planepix.de
www.weitzelmedia.de
carl_galloway
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Post by carl_galloway »

@cyrano, those are lovely templates and if you could port them to Serendipity that would be awesome, I think your designs are definitely what our users are looking for, they are clean and tidy, they look great, and users could easily swap the header image for their own. Could we get a commitment from you to port some of these?
d_cee
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Post by d_cee »

I agree, nice templates cyrano.

Carl, It's hard to say how many I'll do. I enjoy designing templates although I think I'm doing well if I do one in a month! I tweak them into submission to make them look the way I want :-) Takes ages.

I'm really interested to know what some of the users think we need.

Dave
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Post by lordcoffee »

I haven't read all the replys (sorry for that) but I had an Idea a few days ago. How nice would it be, if you're logged in on your blog and have some kind of "edit entry button" as we have nbut if you push this button the entry shows the editor (maybe wysiwyg) on the frontend inside of the entry to edit the entry without movin gto the backend. ??? Did anyone understand my ugly english? :wink:
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Post by judebert »

Sure; you think being able to edit the entry in-place would be nice, so you don't have to go back to the blog admin screen. That would be cool, but I think it would require Javascript.

Meanwhile, these templates are starting to drive me nuts. We've got so many two-column templates it's difficult to sort through them all! And when you really consider it, how different are they? Not much except a CSS file. Seriously, not attempting offense: it looks to me like we could pare our templates down to a very small subset by specifying just the number of columns and presence of a link bar, nav bar, and about box.

(Looking a little more carefully, we may also need to specify where the category icon and author information go. But unless I'm mistaken, that can be handled through CSS, so I'm sticking to my guns on that for a little while longer.)

I think THAT's where we can improve the templates. Make one MASTER template that can be two-column or three-column, where the category icon and entry info can be moved around inside the entry with CSS, and where link bar, nav bar, and about box are present but can be hidden by CSS. Then throw a load of CSS files at it.

We could even make a "Master Theme Configurator" plugin that would allow us to assign values to each of the CSS classes from the backend. Then users could modify their styles from the admin interface.
Judebert
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yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

carl_galloway wrote:@yellowled, is your sport template a commitment to produce at least one template this year, could we get you to commit to 2 templates, or even 3? And what about the other designers?
I have to admit that's hard to say at the moment for personal reasons. My job situation is a little in jeopardy right now, which is why I have quite some spare time at the moment. That might change this year, so it's really not a good idea to commit to a large number.

However, I think it is a great idea to have a working, bulletproof, solid vanilla template - on the other hand you and me already thought we'd have found the holy grail with the One True Layout, and remember how that turned out :roll:

You sound a little as if you already have something in mind for this, though ..?

YL
Last edited by yellowled on Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

judebert wrote:Sure; you think being able to edit the entry in-place would be nice, so you don't have to go back to the blog admin screen. That would be cool, but I think it would require Javascript.
Hmhmhmhm. I'm no coder, but doesn't this kind of open Pandora's box of security issues?
judebert wrote:(Looking a little more carefully, we may also need to specify where the category icon and author information go. But unless I'm mistaken, that can be handled through CSS, so I'm sticking to my guns on that for a little while longer.)
Those category icons drive me nuts. I'm probably wrong and right after posting this, 10 people will claim to use them, but I can't remember seing a blog using them, like, ever. Then again, it's 2:15 right now, and that's probably why I don't remember seing them.
judebert wrote:We could even make a "Master Theme Configurator" plugin that would allow us to assign values to each of the CSS classes from the backend. Then users could modify their styles from the admin interface.
Pretty impossible to use for new users or people who don't know CSS, though. Maybe a "light" version of this would be better suited. I mean, imagine for a second what the average Joe User really wants to change in any given template. I'd say:

1. change the header image
2. change the basic colors
3. customizable navbar (we already have that in new templates)
4. change the information presented in the entry footer ("I don't want trackbacks, but comments. I want the time, but not the author." etc.)

and that's about it in my humble opinion.

BTW, here's a little eye candy for those who love innovative templates (yes, it is for "the other blog engine" - have a peek anyway): http://blog.sebastian-krauss.de/ It's a German blog with a template that looks like the command line interface on a Commodore Amiga. It's incredibly cool, very geeky - and no average user would ever want to use it :wink:

YL
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Post by d_cee »

judebert wrote:Sure; you think being able to edit the entry in-place would be nice, so you don't have to go back to the blog admin screen. That would be cool, but I think it would require Javascript.
There's lots of ajax stuff around that does just this, maybe someone with more advanced skills than mine could incorporate something with the jquery library for example.
YellowLed wrote:Maybe a "light" version of this would be better suited. I mean, imagine for a second what the average Joe User really wants to change in any given template. I'd say:

1. change the header image
2. change the basic colors
3. customizable navbar (we already have that in new templates)
4. change the information presented in the entry footer ("I don't want trackbacks, but comments. I want the time, but not the author." etc.)

and that's about it in my humble opinion.
I pretty much agree - and guess most of this could be incorporated into the theme configurator.
YellowLed wrote:BTW, here's a little eye candy for those who love innovative templates (yes, it is for "the other blog engine" - have a peek anyway): http://blog.sebastian-krauss.de/ It's a German blog with a template that looks like the command line interface on a Commodore Amiga. It's incredibly cool, very geeky - and no average user would ever want to use it :wink:

YL
Great work - brings back great memories of the ST and the Amiga! - and I'm sure, quite impossible to use :-)

Dave
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Post by yellowled »

d_cee wrote:I pretty much agree - and guess most of this could be incorporated into the theme configurator.
Let's see ... I have something which needs a little more work before I can show it to you guys. It's a basic layout which right now has 3 columns, but it should be rather easy to switch it to two. It's just a static XHTML page yet, and I guess we all have experienced that a more complex s9y site can break a layout which worked fine with simple XHTML example pages, but maybe it's a start.

It's not "content first", but I guess we can get away with skiplinks. Also, it does have an issue in case the sidebars have a bg color and the entries column is shorter than the sidebars, but I think we can ignore that since almost nobody will have that in a blog.

I have already tested it in FF1.5 (Win/Linux), Opera 9 (Win/Linux) and IE 6 and 7 (Win). It does have issues in IE < 6, but then again, which Layout doesn't? I'm probably gonna finish the example pages tonight, unless Carl (or somebody else) does already have something in his or her drawer which does already work.

YL
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Post by d_cee »

YellowLed wrote:I'm probably gonna finish the example pages tonight, unless Carl (or somebody else) does already have something in his or her drawer which does already work.
I've nothing at the moment so I'll look forward to seeing your work YL

Dave
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

A quick shot: http://www.yellowled.de/tmp/bulletproof/index.html

Please ignore the colors, that's just the usual test colors I use. Plus, I haven't tested this in any Win browser since I'm a little bit in a hurry right now. I don't see any problem porting this to s9y, however, although it might easily break once images and stuff come into the picture ...

YL
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