Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

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yellowled
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Sat May 09, 2015 3:46 pm

Timbalu wrote:The bad thing for the development of staticpages is, that there are some Themes on the road, given their own plugin_staticpages* template files, because of the original template file in the plugins directory being very old (markup-wise) and not being able to fit into certain needs of the templates.
That, however, is because the frontend template of the old staticpages plugin have been outdated for a very long time, so the best option for modern frontend themes was to provide their own staticpages templates.

That's not even restricted to staticpages, there are quite a lot of plugins which emit very outdated frontend markup. It's one of those things where backwards compatibility bites us in the back. :?

Also, as long as the new staticpages plugin is not released (meaning on Spartacus) it does not really make sense to adapt the themes' staticpages templates, does it? And even then, there could still be people who have not updated their staticpages plugin, but use a theme with updated staticpages templates, and now my head hurts a bit. :?

YL
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Timbalu
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sat May 09, 2015 4:01 pm

Thats what I said. I did not want to blame anybody with that statement.
I feel dizzy about all these possibilities myself.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Sat May 09, 2015 4:07 pm

Timbalu wrote:Thats what I said. I did not want to blame anybody with that statement.
I feel dizzy about all these possibilities myself.
No, I know that – I just wanted to add a bit of insight for non-devs reading this. :)

I guess that makes “static pages, what to do with it and how” a very important item on the agenda for the next dev talk. At least come August 1st, all this will get a bit easier …

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Sat May 09, 2015 4:30 pm

OK, you got my curiosity - what happens on Aug 1st, other than Swiss National day :D ?

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Sat May 09, 2015 5:06 pm

kybernator wrote:OK, you got my curiosity - what happens on Aug 1st, other than Swiss National day :D ?
See the section “Compatibility” in http://blog.s9y.org/archives/262-Serend ... ipity.html

YL
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Timbalu
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Re: Static Pages: new version

Post by Timbalu » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:39 pm

We might have some better feedback regarding the fixes, additions etc posting an announcement here: Please test Staticpages Dev! (If you like, of course!)

https://github.com/ophian/serendipity_e ... e/releases
(S9y 1.7.8 and up. Maybe this will be for 2.0+ only in the end, since there the fun begins.)

Like I said, it will probably never be ready in total, but it is as much as it can be for the moment.
Its at v.4.42(++) now, but for me its more like a 5.x though.

I would not hesitate to recommend giving it a widespread try, even if certain people would like to change the appearance even more. :) My goal was to keep and fix the possibilities, the usage, the experiences, the specialities and polish this all for 2.0 in mind too. It does change a lot in the background - keeping in mind what was intended to have. That is why I added the changes for staticpage_in_templates and gave it an own zip.

So at first I am personally much more interested in discussing or having some feedback on these "inner" values and their outcome, rather than detailled design or color or markup questions, which when changed could change all the finetuning in the backyard. Secondly, I am not that interested in even more feature requests so far. (This all could be done later.) Please don't missunderstand my focus on this, since fixing CSS bugs or something is good to have too. :) For GitHubers: You may better use PRs or use the issue list, than do all that here.

The main changes apart from appearance and other smaller bugfixes (*) were:
  • A smart rework for 2.0
  • Smartified the Backend
  • New Backend form templates (**)
  • Precise the staticpage DB SELECT query for the frontend, the sidebar and the backend
  • Backend listentries enhancements
  • Fixed staticpage frontend navigations [assumes new template markup] (***)
  • Associated 1:1 relation for staticpage related categories
(*) Much more described in detail in the changelog or the dev readme.

(**) If your theme holds its own staticpage backend forms in /templates/yourTheme/backend_templates/* you will need to remove or temporary disable that directory by changing its name.

(***) See staticpage_in_templates-v4.39.zip.

(n) Previous Dev users will need to remove the icon "font" directory though and might need a [Ctrl]-[r] reload twice


Edit: v.4.56 - 2016-02-02 latest Release
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

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Re: Static Pages: new version

Post by yellowled » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:57 pm

Timbalu wrote:I would not hesitate to recommend giving it a widespread try, even if certain people would like to change the appearance even more. :)
Honest question, and I expect an honest answer: do you want my feedback on the backend

a) at all
b) here

and are you willing to accept pull requests on that?

Because frankly, I am not going to spend hours of testing it and rewriting the backend to something that remotely resembles the rest of the 2k11 backend if you're going to insist on keeping „your“ styles. We have been through that before.

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:04 pm

2 Minutes in, first severe bug.
Screenshot 2015-07-11 15.00.43.png
Screenshot 2015-07-11 15.00.43.png (27.57 KiB) Viewed 3405 times
Why you insist on doing things in the backend that do not adhere to the backend framework is beyond me.

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:43 pm

Thanks. Fixed in 4.43.

For the rest ... well, it depends, since I am not really enthusiastic about your tone, which seem to not have changed since the last time. You had so much time since then to give a private helping hand and say in friendly words what you would like to change and why. GitHub and my Mail were opened all the time. This are not blogentries and it relies on certain needs which are "build-in". I don't really want to discuss this here in this "unwillingness" manner.
I am sure there are certainly a lot of optimizations in the CSS possible to do. This is not the problem.
Even the current state of "design" is not set to stone, since I know there always is something which could be done better or re-thought in total. This is what I meant with: "probably never be ready in total". I think you may know that I am "Stur wie ein Stier, but am able to accept better conceptions, when they respect the work that was done!". :)
Regards,
Ian

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Don Chambers
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Don Chambers » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:00 pm

If your theme holds its own staticpage backend forms in /templates/yourTheme/backend_templates/* you will need to remove or temporary disable that directory by changing its name.
Is this because theme specific templates are not supported, or is it some other reason? My theme "Clean Blog" requires custom static page smarty templates.

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:27 pm

Don Chambers wrote:Is this because theme specific templates are not supported, or is it some other reason?
No. This is just a note to make upgraders notice that there are new forms available and previous ones changed a little. If you keep the old in themes (if have) you may not notice elsewise. Supporting theme based backend forms is still possible!

Edit: This mainly is about the so called "default" backend form template. Which for the "new" staticpages plugin is not so much being default any more. The new one recommended to be used in general is the "responsive" or the (responsive) "custom" form. The first is even set as default. I could not simply rename the old "default" form, since that was already out in the wild and I wanted a smooth upgrade experience. So we have to keep that name and maybe also the grid layout at least for all the ones wanting to keep it like ever.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:05 pm

Timbalu wrote:You had so much time since then to give a private helping hand and say in friendly words what you would like to change and why. GitHub and my Mail were opened all the time.
First of all, you have no idea how much (spare) time I have, plus you don't get to decide how I spend it.

Why do you insist on communicating “in private”? Why exclude other developers from the discussion? Do you consider this to be your personal project that no one else is supposed to touch or comment on?

I already gave you a helping hand. You refused to take it.

We can discuss this in a dev talk, if you are actually interested in discussing it.

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:31 am

Oh btw, Don. I would recommend to rename your theme based form to something unique, like "cleanblog_staticpage_backend.tpl". This works with the SP DEV, but you need to test this for the current static pages plugin. The select form collection changed to be sorted by Alphabet, so in this case you would like it to have it on top, right?! (A-Cu)

Edit: The naming is even a little bit more detailled. To not have compat issues with the new staticpage backend form templates, the new (internal) files follow a converting naming scheme for the template selector select form: eg. a file 'responsive_template.tpl' shows up as 'Responsive Template'. Apart from compat issues this was done to shorten up the select field width and have it semantically nice.

This would mean to you, if you would like to follow this naming scheme for the upcoming SP Plugin, to name your file 'cleanblog_template.tpl' to show up as 'Cleanblog Template'.

The bad thing to handle, are already pushed out longer template names with the old naming scheme for example - since they would still be valid and could not be converted on the fly to something nice in the internal select field conversion. To get rid of them, someone would need to take care to purge them if exist. I think your theme(s?), since actually using backend forms by default, are the only ones in conflict with this.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Don Chambers » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:10 pm

Timbalu wrote:Oh btw, Don. I would recommend to rename your theme based form to something unique, like "cleanblog_staticpage_backend.tpl". This works with the SP DEV, but you need to test this for the current static pages plugin. The select form collection changed to be sorted by Alphabet, so in this case you would like it to have it on top, right?! (A-Cu)
ok - but that would then require the user to select the uniquely named template from a drop down list, correct? By using the same tpl names as the plugin's tpls, its an automatic override, correct?

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:04 pm

Yes. But since the "default" default has now changed to "responsive" and can be set by the user as the default form (untouched settings hold 1 month or so), this is not that easy to guess, I assume. So better explicitly tell your users to swich to the cleanblog form themself.
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

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