Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

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kybernator
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Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Thu May 07, 2015 11:52 am

At the moment, the styling of the static pages does not fully agree with the styling of articles.

Using the Next theme here: http://efg-test.xf1.de/ the visual differences seem to be the pagetitle h2, which in an article is a link and colored accordingly (even though it only is a link to itself) and position and style of author`s name and date: above article, but below static page, separated with a pipe | on static page (why oh why?), author´s name not a link on static page.

I am aware that there is some work on a forked static page plugin - will these issues most likely be fixed, and when is it expected to be released? Or is it wiser, at the moment, to try to fix this on the blog using the existing plugin?

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yellowled
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Thu May 07, 2015 12:46 pm

kybernator wrote:Using the Next theme here:
First of all: You can change whatever you'd like to change easily since the static pages plugin's output is (almost?) fully smartified. Unfortunately, these changes would not always be update-safe.
kybernator wrote:the visual differences seem to be the pagetitle h2, which in an article is a link and colored accordingly (even though it only is a link to itself)
That is specific to (not only) Next, not to the static pages plugin.

It is kind of an accepted pattern to do that, mostly because static pages (in blogs) are rarely linked to. Also, it kind of makes sense to link the article title in overview pages, and it saves a view bytes to just leave it that way for single entry view.
kybernator wrote:position and style of author`s name and date: above article, but below static page, separated with a pipe | on static page (why oh why?), author´s name not a link on static page.
Also kind of an accepted pattern. In most blogs, static pages are “step children”. They are being used for stuff that you don't want to have, but need to have – privacy policy, legal info etc. A lot of people actually turn off the static page info altogether (in the plugin config).

As for the pipe character, you can easily switch that off in your user.css.

Code: Select all

.meta li:after {
    content: '';
}
kybernator wrote:I am aware that there is some work on a forked static page plugin - will these issues most likely be fixed, and when is it expected to be released?
These are not really issues, and they are not really related to the static pages plugin.

YL
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kybernator
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Thu May 07, 2015 1:22 pm

yellowled wrote: A lot of people actually turn off the static page info altogether (in the plugin config).
I am likely having a not so bright moment here, but which setting would that be? I assume by static page info you are refering to the author/date line.

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yellowled
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Thu May 07, 2015 3:46 pm

kybernator wrote:I am likely having a not so bright moment here, but which setting would that be? I assume by static page info you are refering to the author/date line.
I'm sorry, I remembered that wrong. The author/date are only suppressed on static pages if the respective fields are empty for whatever reason. There is no way to “switch them off”.

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Don Chambers » Thu May 07, 2015 4:57 pm

yellowled wrote:The author/date are only suppressed on static pages if the respective fields are empty for whatever reason. There is no way to “switch them off”.
It is probably more accurate to say those fields cannot be switched off in the Next theme, but one could easily add that functionality to a modified copy of Next.

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kybernator
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Thu May 07, 2015 5:11 pm

OK.

The code to supress the pipe character works fine, btw, but I still wonder why it is there in the first place...

Another question for Garvin, probably, IIRC you are the one coding the new static pages plugin: What are you going to change? Any idea when you will release?

And yes, I know that S9Y is a blog system (or, in the case I am working on, a news system) and not a CMS, just being curious here.

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Thu May 07, 2015 5:47 pm

kybernator wrote:The code to supress the pipe character works fine, btw, but I still wonder why it is there in the first place...
Ask YL ;-)
https://github.com/s9y/Serendipity/blob ... e.css#L695
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Thu May 07, 2015 5:51 pm

kybernator wrote:The code to supress the pipe character works fine, btw, but I still wonder why it is there in the first place...
Because it is used for the article footer as well. The CSS

Code: Select all

.meta li:after { … }
applies to both article and page footers, it can not differentiate between article and page. So, BTW, if you only want the seperators removed in page footers, you'd need to use

Code: Select all

.page-info .meta li:after {
    content: '';
}
That being said, I'm thinking about changing Next according to your suggestions here, because they seem logic and valid. I'm just waiting if you have some more in mind. :)
kybernator wrote:What are you going to change? Any idea when you will release?
The static pages rewrite is Ian's “baby”. It will probably be released when it's finished. :wink:

YL
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kybernator
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Thu May 07, 2015 6:14 pm

yellowled wrote: I'm just waiting if you have some more in mind. :)
Well, I am not holding anything back, I just have to find the time to have a good look and to write down my thoughts.
I am doing the present project for a free church (that's the kind that doesn't get church tax money in Germany) which I belong to, and want to help them get an up-to-date website, usable on mobile, easy to add articles.
But, if you look at my present test blog, and compare the guestbook styling with the rest, you will probably be able to anticipate my next Next questions.
The static pages rewrite is Ian's “baby”. It will probably be released when it's finished. :wink:
We are talking Debian release cycle here, right? :wink:

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Thu May 07, 2015 6:55 pm

kybernator wrote:But, if you look at my present test blog, and compare the guestbook styling with the rest, you will probably be able to anticipate my next Next questions.
Please keep in mind at all times that I have next to no experience with the guestbook plugin. I don't think I have ever used it myself, and I can probably count the number of times it has come up in the forums over the past few years on one hand. It is very, very rarely used these days.
kybernator wrote:We are talking Debian release cycle here, right? :wink:
We don't even set release dates for the s9y core. I don't think it would make sense to do that for plugins (which are usually maintained by one developer only).

YL
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Thu May 07, 2015 8:06 pm

kybernator wrote:We are talking Debian release cycle here, right? :wink:
No. Statipages-Dev had different announced states of being ready to use, starting in the last quarter of 2014. Since nobody claimed this as an immediate must have, which made me wonder regarding the current staticpage backend with 2.0, or found the deficiencies and bugs in some frontend and backend cases, or reacted on my wish to let it go; since nobody really tested it, or gave a friendly helping hand, it fell asleep like Rosebud in need of a loving kiss.
Saying finished to this refresh is probably never given! The current and today even changed plugin_staticpage.tpl of the Next theme does not reflect the possibilities of Staticpages.

About the guestbook: If there are questions, ask them. It is a very old plugin, quite common in the old days, when web communication was limited. Maybe it is used more often without being conspicuous or very rarely used, you'll never know. I just tried to make it more secure and less spammy over the years. To create a guestbook design which fits all themes is nearly impossible, I think. But since it is smartified, everyone is able to make its own favour and rewrite css rules via user.css, I assume.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by yellowled » Thu May 07, 2015 9:54 pm

Timbalu wrote:Since nobody claimed this as an immediate must have, which made me wonder regarding the current staticpage backend with 2.0, or found the deficiencies and bugs in some frontend and backend cases, or reacted on my wish to let it go; since nobody really tested it, or gave a friendly helping hand, it fell asleep like Rosebud in need of a loving kiss.
  • The “current staticpage backend with 2.0” is in the state that it is because I don't see the point in adapting a plugin's backend for 2.0 that is supposed to be rewritten anyway.
  • “deficiencies and bugs in some frontend and backend cases” and “gave a friendly helping hand” – Might help to actually state that you want help with it. I, for instance, was under the impression you did not want help with it.
YL
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kybernator
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Thu May 07, 2015 10:27 pm

First, I do hope I did not give the impression to be demanding, if I did, please accept my apologies. I am really, honestly thankful for S9Y (including the plugins) "as is".
On the other hand, I do like to ask here if I notice stuff that seems odd to me, with a special eye on consistency.
Sometimes, the perceived bug is actually a feature, sometimes, it is a matter of minor importance, and at least once I found a real bug :-)
Timbalu wrote:Since nobody claimed this as an immediate must have, which made me wonder regarding the current staticpage backend with 2.0, or found the deficiencies and bugs in some frontend and backend cases, or reacted on my wish to let it go; since nobody really tested it, or gave a friendly helping hand, it fell asleep like Rosebud in need of a loving kiss.
I am not in the position to claim that I could be helpful with actual development, but if there is something I can do testing, please do say. Perhaps this is not the loving kiss, but a little peck on the cheeks.
Saying finished to this refresh is probably never given!
Too bad, because:
The current and today even changed plugin_staticpage.tpl of the Next theme does not reflect the possibilities of Staticpages.
Would you mind giving an example or two what additional possibilities are there?
About the guestbook: If there are questions, ask them. (...)
Will do. Also, I do know that a guestbook is a little old-school, but with my present project I aim at a mostly older and conservative user group. I will even have to do the abominable thing and disable article comments, but want to give the opportunity for some kind of feedback via the guestbook.

Regards,

Bernd

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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by Timbalu » Sat May 09, 2015 12:27 pm

kybernator wrote:Would you mind giving an example or two what additional possibilities are there?
Well, Next simplifies a staticpage down to the bottom. You could switch to the old bulletproof template temporary to get an idea. This is in combination with all these options you can set in the staticpages config. (I could post an example page image if necessary.)

There is some sort of entrypaging between staticpages on top, for example. Also you can set this per page as a childpage breadcrumb navigator or as a plain list of direct childpages view. In staticpages-next this will be better usable and fixes some inconsistencies/bugs in selecting the pages and in combinatory with the options set. This is one of the reasons I would recommend to leave the author and date down at the page bottom. Also I would vote to make staticpages distinguishable from blogentries. It is static site content and it is not broken into categories like blog entries are probably (see discussion about the authors link). But it tries to support both, blog entry like entries and other site pages.

The bad thing for the development of staticpages is, that there are some Themes on the road, given their own plugin_staticpages* template files, because of the original template file in the plugins directory being very old (markup-wise) and not being able to fit into certain needs of the templates. As long as this happens, some changes will never apply to be seen or noticed.
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

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kybernator
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Re: Static Pages: try to fix or wait for new version

Post by kybernator » Sat May 09, 2015 2:41 pm

Thanks a lot, Ian - I will look at what staticpages does under Bulletproof (the first template I used for a project, it was for a friend some years ago) to get an idea and inquire here again if I have questions.

Regards,

Bernd

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