SubToMe for syndication plugin

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onli
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SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Fri May 30, 2014 12:25 am

I think the syndication plugin should have an option to echo the subToMe-button instead (https://www.subtome.com/). I would implement that, if no one else wants to, but want to give room here for objections.

I even would want this to be the default setting, if the implementation is as easy and stable as I imagine. The plugin would show the button in the sidebar, but in the head still the rss-feed and the comment-feed would be linked. Only the rss-2.0-version though, everything else is dead anyway.

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yellowled
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Fri May 30, 2014 11:14 am

onli wrote:I even would want this to be the default setting
Objection to (just) that.

This is, of course, a personal opinion. There's little that annoys me more on the web these days than sites which hide their RSS feed, be it altogether or behind a button like this. I realize we can't force our users to link to their RSS feeds in the sidebar, but let's at least not encourage them to do so by making this the default.

YL
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onli
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:34 pm

But there are no browsers anymore that can by default handle a rss-feed.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:58 pm

onli wrote:But there are no browsers anymore that can by default handle a rss-feed.
But there are feed readers that do.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:47 pm

That don't manage to autodiscover feeds that are embedded into the head? I didn't believe - and still can't really - that a reader like that still exists, given how long the autodiscovery standard exists.

The subToMe-Button doesn't hide the rss-feed completely to get the raw feed is one of the options. But let's postpone that part of the discussion until the button works, and I note happily that you actually agreed with the button as an option in the core plugin :-)

Actually, my main motivation is to have a better syndication default than "show all feeds formats even though no one uses them anymore, and look strange while doing that". If we find another good solution (rss big icon?), we can prefer this as a default.

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onli
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:53 pm

I added an example implementation, pretty rough, but easy enough: https://github.com/s9y/Serendipity/comm ... f43114ac42. I hope that will foster the discussion.

Note that I linked the rss-feed to make him even less hidden. And it is easy to revert.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:29 am

onli wrote:I didn't believe - and still can't really - that a reader like that still exists, given how long the autodiscovery standard exists.
It doesn't really matter if readers support autodiscovery or not if users are not aware of it and still look for an RSS link to subscribe to blogs. (I don't have valid data to support the theory that they do, but neither do I have valid data to support the opposite.)

All I'm saying is: let's never make it a default for users to actively hide their RSS feed link. Because I don't see why anyone would want to do that.

YL
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:41 am

let's never make it a default for users to actively hide their RSS feed link. Because I don't see why anyone would want to do that.
Ok, I see where you are coming from. Because I think that concern is important, I want to answer that directly.

My intention is the contrary: By using the subToMe-Wrapper around the rss-feed, I actually intend to make the feed more visible and more usable. Instead of users arriving on a browser error page after clicking on the feed button - one that would be by default more visible and comprehensible - the user gets asked which reader he wants to use to subscribe to the feed, having multiple free readers as an option, including the option to set their own global favorites and having only them visible by default.

And the autodiscovery is still working (that is how the button works anyway) and the feed is still linked in an a-element, so self-hosted feed-reader are exactly as supported as before.

The button and script is just adding a layer of usability around the feed, covering for browsers mistakes. That's why I think it is a really good idea (good enough to want to set it as default).

Did you or someone already try it in a test blog?

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:32 am

onli wrote:Did you or someone already try it in a test blog?
I literally had no time to do any s9y-related stuff over the last week, so no, I didn't.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:41 pm

onli wrote:Did you or someone already try it in a test blog?
I just did.

I'm going to be blunt here. It is good that it's configurable by exchanging the icon image file, but this button is unacceptable for 2k11.

What about users who don't want an image link there but a (styled) text link? They would have to either add subtome to their theme's frontend markup or use an HTML nugget to add it to their sidebar. I don't think that's very comfortable – and adding subtome is all about making the subscription box more easy to use in the first place.

I think it should – by default – look like the other links in the syndication plugin; in fact, it should be an item of the same list (with an id, preferably). If users want it to look differently, they can easily style it differently using the user.css, which would be hard the way it is implemented now.

YL
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:50 pm

Thanks for testing.

It's quite alright for me to change the markup or the presentation of the button - even though I don't see any problem with the button itself? the colour in 2k11? Didn't see that yet - but the list of xml feeds is horrible. It serves no purpose at all, it is just backwards legacy without function, that makes it more difficult to select the one working feed.

So, let's try to make the subToMe-button configurable in a good way, but please let's get away from the list while doing that.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by garvinhicking » Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:57 pm

Hi!

Looks interesting. I'm ok to make that button a default, as long as offering the other services remains an option for users.

About the layout I also think it needs to be much more toned down and less intrusive visually.

When I click on the button, the text is in english and the old reader is the only option to be clicked. How do I, as the blog owner or user, influence that (i.e. german text and preference on feedly.com?)

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by onli » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:10 pm

garvinhicking wrote:I'm ok to make that button a default
Happy to hear that, great :)
garvinhicking wrote:as long as offering the other services remains an option for users.
Sure, we don't need and probably shouldn't remove options that exist, as long as they work (I mean the pre-rss2.0-formats and the google-reader-button with that). I meant the default mainly, with eleminating the list.
garvinhicking wrote:About the layout I also think it needs to be much more toned down and less intrusive visually.
The button I had in mind first was the one of the wordpress-plugin: https://github.com/pfefferle/wordpress- ... button.svg

The license doesn't match, but if we want to use that, I could ask. An alternative would be a nod to the current design, small inline icon and button with text, just not as a list by default.
garvinhicking wrote:How do I, as the blog owner or user, influence that
The reader-selection is user controlled, you can select your favourites with the heart-button, this is saved in your browser. The translation is on their todo-list, I hope that will solve itself soon.

Whether one can set another default selection if the user has none selected themselve I don't know, and didn't find yet. I had another reader right now on my laptop as the suggestion, it might be random or pre-selected by them.

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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:28 pm

onli wrote:even though I don't see any problem with the button itself?
1. It's a link surrounded by a div with no class. That div is redundant.
2. The link has an inline JS event handler. That is unfortunate, but probably unavoidable since it's a 3rd-party widget.
3. Inside that link in an image which gets the class serendipity_xml_icon. Said class is applied to the link (not the image) in other links in the syndication sidebar plugin. Might lead to CSS regressions, the class shouldn't be there at all for the SubToMe link or image.
4. That image has an id which probably should be applied to the link surrounding it so that the link can be styled. It's highly unlikely anyone would want to apply styles to the image here, if so, they can use a > img.
5. The images alt text ("subToMe") is not very helpful if you don't know what SubToMe is. Should be something like “Subscribe to this blog via SubToMe” or similar.
6. The button's “content” is an image. While it's easy to replace that image on a per-template basis, it's not easy to use no image instead. (Which is a general problem with image links, not specific to this one.)
7. Yes, of course the color. It's green, which is not in 2k11's color set at all (apart from success messages).
8. It's friggin huge.
onli wrote:but the list of xml feeds is horrible. It serves no purpose at all, it is just backwards legacy without function, that makes it more difficult to select the one working feed.
Yes, but that's due to the fact that it offers to emit an unnecessarily long list of feeds which seems to make most users think that emitting many is good. That's not related to the fact that it's a list (which is what it is semantically) or how it's styled, it's just too many options. If this would emit only RSS2 and RSS2 for comments, it would be fine.

YL
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Re: SubToMe for syndication plugin

Post by yellowled » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:35 pm

By the way, the plugin's config should probably reflect that SubToMe is a free service and link to their web site. Some users don't like to use external 3rd-party services, we don't want to make them think this is part of s9y or something. (Yes, I am aware most people can probably figure that out on their own; it's still a good idea to point it out.)

YL
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