[2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Mark threads with "[2.0]" for discussions about features in the longer-term future, "[1.6]" is for short-term. This is not the place for general discussions or plugin or template requests. Only features that are approved to happen by the core team should be listed here for better structuring.
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Dergln
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Dergln » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:13 pm

Hideldihoo,

I'd very much like to see CKeditor in serendipity one or the other way.
It has become a very nice editor with really sweet features and I bet many people would be more than happy to throw XINHA/TinyMCE out the door (no offense :wink:).

Either way it'd be nice if someone could already get rustyx's plugin (link) into the plugin area - it's still working with the latest version of CKEditor (4.0.1) !

###
It only needs a small style change in line 95 from 'v2' to the current 'moono'.
CKEDITOR.config['skin'] = 'v2'; -> CKEDITOR.config['skin'] = 'moono';
(You could also check for the version if you like to maintain backwards compatibility, I tried 3.6.6 before and it also worked like a charm.)
###

Greetings
Oliver

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garvinhicking
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by garvinhicking » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:42 pm

Hi!

I'd love to merge the plugin, I asked for a pull request on github, but he didn't reply to it after that. Maybe you want to contact him, so that we can merge it properly?

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Dergln » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:38 pm

Wooooo !

I sent him a PM in the forums, and now check this:
6 days ago
rustyx opened pull request s9y/Serendipity#14

Added CKEditor plugin

1 commit with 164 additions and 0 deletions
After a whole year absence :D

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Timbalu
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:22 pm

Well, I think he has left us to to the blog which isn't named here. ;-) The pull request left behind can't get merged automatically, since in wrong repository.
I also think a merge is not a good idea since the name has changed, which should be visible in dir and className. So - IMHO - we should live with the old FCKeditor and the new CKEditor for a while, until purging the old.
I have a ready commit here, slightly changed, as I already deliver the current 4.0.1 standard package.
Garvin, if this is ok, please send me a go!
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Dergln » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:22 pm

Stop right there 8)

I don't know if you have time for this, but:
The standard CKeditor lacks an upload script ('search server' and 'upload' as seen here is _not_ included).

There is a free (GPL) one -> http://kcfinder.sunhater.com/, yet I lack PHP + session handling skills to do it myself (it doesn't sound like much work, I just never had to do with sessions and I like to not fuck security up when I don't know stuff).

Personally I've made a workaround via htaccess + pw, but maybe someone can integrate it like it ought to be ?

-> http://kcfinder.sunhater.com/docs/integrate#session

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Timbalu
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:07 pm

Sorry, I don't get what you were trying to say.
This is still like rustyx script, but already delivers current 4.0.1.
If you ever need to upgrade, you can still do the clean and short way like it is guided in the config docs, which is safe and fast.
There is IMHO no need for an automatic upload...
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Ian

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Dergln » Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:38 pm

Timbalu wrote:There is IMHO no need for an automatic upload...
Don't you think it'd be nice to have "the thing that manages uploads" included in the editor ?

Personally I never used the media database for I always felt like it was taking the (bomb-gutted and very) long road.

I don't know how you feel about it, but I think it needs to be overhauled.
This was discussed already -> http://board.s9y.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=19019
but maybe this plugin will do it already ?

It can upload, delete, make previews, move stuff, resize, rename, manage directories...basically everything one can need. CKeditor also offers a great variety of customizing the output (ID, CSS classes etc).

It's just a thought, but I think using CKEditor as default in 2.0 would hit like a hammer if combined with this plugin - for you'd just have a great editing and uploading tool in one place.

edit: If this would really become the standard editor for 2.0 I'd gladly deal with all the needed documentations.

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Timbalu
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:08 pm

Why?
CKeditor is a WYSIWYG Editor for markup text, not a Media Library Management Tool. This is something totally different in my eyes. What do you want CKEditor to do with or inside the Media Library, or vice versa?

We can not have CKEditor as default in 2.0 since it lacks to be MIT Licenced.

Personally I never use a wysiwyg editor, ever.

When you say it can also upload, delete, make previews, move stuff, resize, rename, manage directories... this is not in its standard revision. This is added by plugins, is it?

Well, in that case you would need to find someone else to push this, since I believe that a programs edit and upload areas are getting unsecure if not delivered, maintained and managed by core.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Dergln » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:37 pm

Timbalu wrote:CKeditor is a WYSIWYG Editor for markup text, not a Media Library Management Tool. This is something totally different in my eyes. What do you want CKEditor to do with or inside the Media Library, or vice versa?

When you say it can also upload, delete, make previews, move stuff, resize, rename, manage directories... this is not in its standard revision. This is added by plugins, is it?
Thats what I was trying to say - KCFinder = plugin for CKeditor. They don't deliver one on their own (or at least not a free one)
Timbalu wrote: We can not have CKEditor as default in 2.0 since it lacks to be MIT Licenced.
Have you thought of a workaround like "[Checkbox] Use [great feature advertising here] CKEditor plugin as default WYSIWGY" in the setup routine ?
This shouldn't do any harm and avoids the license problem. (It's a common way if you're mixing licenses)
Timbalu wrote: Personally I never use a wysiwyg editor, ever.
And this is fine. Yet many people will simply ignore CMS software that doesn't offer one nowadays.
People can't be using full html code forever and ever...simplification is key.
Timbalu wrote: Well, in that case you would need to find someone else to push this, since I believe that a programs edit and upload areas are getting unsecure if not delivered, maintained and managed by core.
? Wouldn't CKEditor in s9y be that exact situation already ?

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:03 am

A final note: FCKeditor contained a built-in file uploader/browser. This feature has been removed from CKEditor, and separated to CKFinder. Unfortunately, CKFinder is not free and without paying for it, you can only use it in "demo mode". Its features will be fully available, but an ugly notice will be displayed and the application may not be used for real world applications:
Well, I must have missed the KCFinder being the free version of CKFinder, right?.... :wink:
Dergln wrote:? Wouldn't CKEditor in s9y be that exact situation already ?
Partially Yes, but explicit No. CKE hooks in via Serendipity plugin. Users choice!

For the other discussion arguments you'll need to talk with Garvin or someone else.

Edit: Serendipity internal js function serendipity_imageSelector_addToBody() GetInstance is still relying on FCKeditorAPI, not beeing there any more with CKE...
Regards,
Ian

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:45 am

Timbalu wrote:Well, I think he has left us to to the blog which isn't named here. ;-) The pull request left behind can't get merged automatically, since in wrong repository.
I also think a merge is not a good idea since the name has changed, which should be visible in dir and className. So - IMHO - we should live with the old FCKeditor and the new CKEditor for a while, until purging the old.
I have a ready commit here, slightly changed, as I already deliver the current 4.0.1 standard package.
Garvin, if this is ok, please send me a go!
@Garvin, I think you might have missed my pending question, regarding a new ready to push CKeditor plugin.

Dergln wrote:Have you thought of a workaround like "[Checkbox] Use [great feature advertising here] CKEditor plugin as default WYSIWGY" in the setup routine ?
This shouldn't do any harm and avoids the license problem. (It's a common way if you're mixing licenses)
@Garvin, @YL
This might be a possible way to go in upcoming 2.0 and we can get rid of /htmlarea entirely!

If we head to use this, we could write a purger for this dir (and [OT] also the browserplugin... :roll: ) into the upgrade routine...
Regards,
Ian

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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by yellowled » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:43 am

Timbalu wrote:This might be a possible way to go in upcoming 2.0 and we can get rid of /htmlarea entirely!
If we'd offer that kind of setup option, we'd have to bundle all the plugins for the editor choices with the core (they're all on Spartacus now if I'm not mistaken). That means we'd have to make sure that this was okay with our license.

Also, it (probably) means no longer being able to provide an out-of-the-box WYSIWYG editor, which some people might still think of as a “must have” feature. Plus, last time I checked, the installation of WYSIWYG editors provided by plugins was pretty complicated, even for skilled users.

That means we'd make it hard for most of our users to use a WYSIWYG editor, and I'm not sure we want to do that. As much as I want to get rid of Xinha – annoying users is something we probably don't want to do …

YL
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by garvinhicking » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:48 am

Hi!

Yeah, I didn't get that. So you want to implement the CKEditor as an option into the serendipity_event_fckeditor plugin?

I don't want to fully advertise another WYSIWYG editor when nobody on our team has good experience with it. For xinha we know it works, so I don't want to advertise anything other where we cannot really say how and if it works with everything, especially the media database integration as well as other Buttons for the toolbar and the likes.

We definitely need a BSD-licensed WYSIWYG editor, so even though we can advertise GPL solutions, we can never get rid of htmlarea unless we have a BSD replacement.

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by yellowled » Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:51 am

garvinhicking wrote:So you want to implement the CKEditor as an option into the serendipity_event_fckeditor plugin?
CKEditor is the successor of FCK Editor.
garvinhicking wrote:I don't want to fully advertise another WYSIWYG editor when nobody on our team has good experience with it.
Oh, I do have good experience with CK Editor (using it, that is; not developing with it). Just no in a s9y environment since I never use a WYSIWYG editor myself and since it's not that easy to integrate.

YL
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Re: [2.0] New WYSIWYG editor

Post by Timbalu » Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:14 pm

It is very easy to integrate!
garvinhicking wrote:Yeah, I didn't get that. So you want to implement the CKEditor as an option into the serendipity_event_fckeditor plugin?
No! I want to add a new serendipity_event_ckeditor Plugin (including a current CKE snapshot) to spartacus! This, while FCKe is old - renamed and forwarded - to CKe. IMO it does not make sence to keep the old name!
garvinhicking wrote:I don't want to fully advertise another WYSIWYG editor when nobody on our team has good experience with it. For xinha we know it works, so I don't want to advertise anything other where we cannot really say how and if it works with everything, especially the media database integration as well as other Buttons for the toolbar and the likes.
Is this based to the question of replacing htmlares/XINHA in 2.0?
Who said none has good experiences with ckeditor?
Its just perfectly working for body and extended body, is there anything else?
htmlarea/Xinha did not have a comfortable way to itegrate the media library AFAIK... did it do something with the ML database? Well, I can't say anything about hooks for other buttons or likes, so this has to get investigated.
garvinhicking wrote:We definitely need a BSD-licensed WYSIWYG editor, so even though we can advertise GPL solutions, we can never get rid of htmlarea unless we have a BSD replacement.
We know this - that is why it might be the question to completely dispense the deliverment of a core integrated WYSIWYG Editor (in special as it is old and unmaintained) and write a simple spartacus script to bind the additional Plugin CKeditor by one or two clicks, without leaving Licence.

I have a simple test with 2.0 here using this new plugin and having disabled /htmlarea dir completely - without problems!
Regards,
Ian

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