[2.0] New backend: media db

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yellowled
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[2.0] New backend: media db

Post by yellowled » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:13 am

I seem to remember a discussion (not sure if here or on twitter) about dropping the current media db altogether and replacing it with a different solution, be it some kind of open source project or a homebrew solution. (I think Rodney asked about that on twitter at some point.)

I think this would be a good thing, if only to get rid of the tedious popup windows. I'm not sure if we need to or even should build our own solution, but then again I'm not aware of any ready-to-use projects for this. I also feel that most 3rd-party solutions (Xinha especially) haven't exactly worked out well for us so far …

Anyway, what I really need to know concerning the backend rewrite is whether this is even feasible. If so, I could skip rewriting the media db tpl files altogether (which would be good since they're pretty complicated, especially in terms of JS).

YL
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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by garvinhicking » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:38 am

Hi!

The popup windows are IMO quite integral, I don't see how they could be replaced. Also, I like this. :-)

Basically the media database is a "simple" component that could be replaced. This would be possible, but it would need to be accessible from a seperate URL (=popup), and it needs to be PHP-scope and BSD-licensed. :)

If we had a concept on what we would like the media database to perform differently than now, we could either see how hard implementing this would be, or if something else fits better. IMO our current tech is at least flexible, but of course not meant for "AJAX niceness". This could be tacked on... I could offer help in this, but not be the lead developer for this project.

Personally I almost always use HTML markup to embed images, and use FTP/Dropbox to maintain my media, and mostly external services for album-like views to maintain galleries. So I might not be the target audience for a revamped media database. Of course I see the need for this, so I fully support any improvement in this area, and would like to give a helping hand for someone with "fever" :)

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Garvin
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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by yellowled » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:59 am

garvinhicking wrote:The popup windows are IMO quite integral, I don't see how they could be replaced. Also, I like this. :-)
Don't get me wrong here – the part that I want to get rid of is opening a new window. I don't mind the media db being in a different “layer” than the rest of the backend, I just don't think it's very usable to have it open new windows. Besides, I really hate popup windows. :mrgreen:

Is there a technical reason for opening it in new windows? Is that because technically, the media db is a seperate page or something? Because (apart from not being able to code it myself) I have a vision of it in the standard content area of the backend or in some kind of overlay/lightbox thingy (which would be a JS solution requiring a non-JS fallback).

I have yet to see a nice media db in any CMS or blog (let alone a great one). Basically, they all suck in one way or another. So I guess there are no good 3rd-party solutions out there (and if so, they'd have to meet our license). Then again, this would be a chance to stand out for s9y. I doubt too many users are able or willing to handle images the way you do, so there's a clear need for a media db interface.

I guess I'll give the current media db one last try, but as I said, it's really complicated code, especially the JS, which is also relying on a certain markup structure to be present … yikes. :mrgreen: If I'm unable to tackle it, the first prototype of the new backend might not have an adapted media db at all. We'll just have to live with that for the time being. :wink:

YL
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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by garvinhicking » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:34 pm

Hi!
Don't get me wrong here – the part that I want to get rid of is opening a new window. I don't mind the media db being in a different “layer” than the rest of the backend, I just don't think it's very usable to have it open new windows. Besides, I really hate popup windows. :mrgreen:
Can you please elaborate? I find it great to be able to completely work in a different window to select the image, and be able to modify my current workscope without affecting this. Also, I can completely move the popup to a second screen, and not be restricted to the current workspace of an existing window.
Is there a technical reason for opening it in new windows? Is that because technically, the media db is a seperate page or something? Because (apart from not being able to code it myself) I have a vision of it in the standard content area of the backend or in some kind of overlay/lightbox thingy (which would be a JS solution requiring a non-JS fallback).
I hate lightboxes for functional things. And yes, technically it's a completely different module with its own running PHP scope, and thus requires a seperate, own PHP process/thread.
I guess I'll give the current media db one last try, but as I said, it's really complicated code, especially the JS, which is also relying on a certain markup structure to be present … yikes. :mrgreen: If I'm unable to tackle it, the first prototype of the new backend might not have an adapted media db at all. We'll just have to live with that for the time being. :wink:
At the next dev-sprint I hope to be able to help with this :)

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by Timbalu » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:46 pm

garvinhicking wrote:I find it great to be able to completely work in a different window to select the image, and be able to modify my current workscope without affecting this. Also, I can completely move the popup to a second screen, and not be restricted to the current workspace of an existing window.
Just a sidenote. For the second, this seems to be the standard on touching devices like iOS.
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Ian

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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by yellowled » Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:04 pm

garvinhicking wrote:Can you please elaborate? I find it great to be able to completely work in a different window to select the image, and be able to modify my current workscope without affecting this. Also, I can completely move the popup to a second screen, and not be restricted to the current workspace of an existing window.
On why I hate popup windows? I just do. This is of course just a matter of personal preferences, although it is kind of funny that you and I prefer completely opposite workflows here. :-)

First of all, I think it should (ideally) be the user's choice whether to view something in a new window, a new tab or the same window/tab. (Which is why I subscribe to the theory that target="_blank" is evil and must be eliminated.) Of course, overlay/lightbox solutions limit that even worse, but on the other hand, they clearly put the focus on whatever they display. How one sees this aspect of course depends on whether one prefers a linear or non-linear workflow. I don't think I have ever switched back from the media db popup to the entry editor or something like that (which you seem to do). I just don't see the advantage in opening the media db in a popup, but maybe we could make this a configuration setting?
garvinhicking wrote:At the next dev-sprint I hope to be able to help with this :)
I'm knee-deep in the media db tpl files, and it isn't even that bad. It's a bit hard to tell which tpl file does what, but that's true for almost all the backend tpls. Obviously, the markup is pretty complicated because it is mixed with inline JS like it's 1999. There's even one file which says not to alter the HTML markup since that would require altering the JS which is attached to it, which is … erm … well, let's just say it makes the JS look kind of bad. :wink:

I'll see what I can do in a reasonable amount of time, but at the devsprint we agreed that I'd rather get started on a basic styling for the backend so that next time, we can actually take a look at it, which will make discussing things much easier. :-)

YL
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Re: [2.0] New backend: media db

Post by onli » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:57 pm

Three sketches showing a possible design (staying close to the current, adding filetype-tabs, copying the add-media-dialogue from picasa and integrating an add-button to the normal media-db):
Image

Image

Image
Opinions, suggestions?

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