2.0 End of Alpha Talk

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yellowled
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:58 pm

That's the one I have in mind.

YL
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garvinhicking
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by garvinhicking » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:01 pm

Hi!

My personal todolist I created during the talk was this:

Code: Select all

- Visual groupings of <fieldset>s for plugin output in the entry editor need to look better, coordinate with Yellowled
- Karma plugin has no output
- Create example version switch for plugins to utilize 2.0 functions
- Check where serendipity_jsSetCookie is used in plugins, because that function got removed.
- Check how "codeschmiede" and other custom admin backend templates perform in 2.0
- Create a draft blog entry for the 2.0 beta announcement
- Check why the captcha plugin does not show output in 2.0 in the plugin configuration (it results in a jquery JS output)
- Make toggling event/sidebar plugins in the plugin overview savable in a cookie
- Create a central "plugin httpPath" variable
- Check where the "use advanced javascripts" option was previously used
I'll try to work on these issues and report here for progress. Anything I forgot? I did not have the chance yet to hear the recording of the meeting, but it seems I didn't miss something specifically for me?

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:09 pm

garvinhicking wrote:- Create a draft blog entry for the 2.0 beta announcement
Please remind me that I wanted to create a screencast for this. No idea when I'll have the time for that, though. Did we have a date in mind for the beta announcement?

YL
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by garvinhicking » Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:37 pm

yellowled wrote:
garvinhicking wrote:- Create a draft blog entry for the 2.0 beta announcement
Please remind me that I wanted to create a screencast for this. No idea when I'll have the time for that, though. Did we have a date in mind for the beta announcement?
Not yet. I was thinking maybe end of the month / beginning of April?

I just checked our event plugins; I don't see a good example on any plugin that would actually need a 2.0 version check where I could build an example for. So ideally, if the need arises, you could use the Code that Timbalu posted earlier in the thread, that would be good enough.

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by Timbalu » Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:44 pm

garvinhicking wrote:you could use the Code that Timbalu posted earlier
I wish you would call my name instead. "Timbalu" is ~10 years old and was created in a time when I did not expect to rest that long...! :) I still wish, I could be able to change my nick.
Regards,
Ian

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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by garvinhicking » Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:32 pm

Hi!

OK, I had some time to work on a few issues today:

1. I added missing language constants and hopefully caught all relevant i18n instances. There are 2 or 3 left, but IMO it is not worth adding those as constants, because they olny address technical terms that should usually not be relevant.

2. I added jquery.cookie so that the tab-jquery plugin can remember the last toggled tab. Every tablist now needs a unique ID for this (I added it in the 2 instances I could find)

3. I made sure that the now removed "eyecandy" option is no longer used by any of our plugins

4. I readded serendipity_jsSetCookie, because it's used in a couple of plugins

5. I fixed the karma DB structure for the karmalog table, and specified the "no entries to print" option (you need to enable logging for this)

6. I fixed the captcha plugin which did not display because the plugin API hook "external_plugin" included the genpage.inc.php handler. This shouldn't happen, is there any reason it was introduced? onli?

7. I changed the wording of "Design" to "Template". We previously used the term "Theme", "Style" and "Template" in Serendpity. I do not want to add a fourth version to the mix. I checked the language file and removed "Theme" and "Style", so that everywhere we now use Template.

8. I promised to take a look for adding a central "plugin http path" option. Turns out, this is not feasible. The reason is that each plugin could be in its own path, so you need this option actually per-plugin, and not globally, because every plugin could be in another directory. So we need to handle it like before.


These things are still open:

1. <fieldset>design

2. AddLoadEvent should probably better be moved from serendipity. to the global scope again. I created a seperate topic for that.

3. We need to agree on some kind of "default bundled" and "default enabled" plugins. I tried to re-read the thread about this, but it's reaaaaly complicated. ;)

4. Please check the .tpl files for any missing i18n strings. I saw that some strings ("More") occured, without a {* i18n *} comment. Please check that there are none of these left?

5. Write up a blog entry about 2.0, including a "quick overview" for possible template designers and developers, what they need to take care about.

6. Create a screencast

7. We need to check what happens when someone uses a custom backend template like provided in the codeschmiede template.

Regards,
Garvin
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by onli » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:30 pm

garvinhicking wrote:6. I fixed the captcha plugin which did not display because the plugin API hook "external_plugin" included the genpage.inc.php handler. This shouldn't happen, is there any reason it was introduced? onli?
Yes, that change was related to the template plugin hook we use to generate the smartified js, https://github.com/s9y/Serendipity/blob ... c.php#L117.

We can of course think about moving that file to the js-hook, but doesn't it needs to be linked to have a proper fallback in default? I'm still struggling with the best fallback architecture for this.
7. I changed the wording of "Design" to "Template". We previously used the term "Theme", "Style" and "Template" in Serendpity. I do not want to add a fourth version to the mix. I checked the language file and removed "Theme" and "Style", so that everywhere we now use Template.
Please no! :/ They are designs. A template is the file with a .tpl, a style is a superficial look, but what we are providing in that section is a choice of different designs. I would reallly very much like to have finally a proper and clear wording here, and I am pretty sure that we need to have Design here for that. Not having it mixed is exactly the goal, and sticking to template - with template already used for the .tpl-files - will fortify the problem. I thought long about that change…
8. I promised to take a look for adding a central "plugin http path" option. Turns out, this is not feasible. The reason is that each plugin could be in its own path, so you need this option actually per-plugin, and not globally, because every plugin could be in another directory. So we need to handle it like before.
Hm, can't we integrate this into the plugin api, to not have to write it again and again as a plugin option?
3. We need to agree on some kind of "default bundled" and "default enabled" plugins. I tried to re-read the thread about this, but it's reaaaaly complicated.
Do you want to see my suggestion (not here ofc) and discuss on this basis?

"Great" to everything else ;)

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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:55 pm

garvinhicking wrote:I was thinking maybe end of the month / beginning of April?
Could work, I guess. I'm going to be at my girlfriend's then, which gives me a bigger upload (which is always nice for screencasts). I guess I would put this on either YouTube or Vimeo so you can just embed it in the blog post or even just link to it. Any preference?
garvinhicking wrote:So ideally, if the need arises, you could use the Code that Timbalu posted earlier in the thread, that would be good enough.
I'll try that. And I'll come screaming for help if I screw it up. :wink:

YL
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:07 pm

Whoa. You did some work there. :)
garvinhicking wrote:5. I fixed the karma DB structure for the karmalog table, and specified the "no entries to print" option (you need to enable logging for this)
Is that the reason the Karma plugin didn't generate any backend output? (Haven't updated the dev blog to the latest 2.0 yet, just got back from a field trip.)
garvinhicking wrote:7. I changed the wording of "Design" to "Template". We previously used the term "Theme", "Style" and "Template" in Serendpity. I do not want to add a fourth version to the mix. I checked the language file and removed "Theme" and "Style", so that everywhere we now use Template.
My 2 cents on that:

* I don't think “Design” is the perfect word, but I could live with it.
* I agree with onli that “Templates” is confusing because it also refers to .tpl files. (Then again, I usually call them Templates myself. :roll:)
* I also think that “Style” doesn't work at all.
* “Theme” is okay, I guess. It's known as just that in other blog systems/CMS.
garvinhicking wrote:1. <fieldset>design
On my todo list for as soon as I get the time.
garvinhicking wrote:3. We need to agree on some kind of "default bundled" and "default enabled" plugins. I tried to re-read the thread about this, but it's reaaaaly complicated. ;)
Someone start a new thread for that as well, I reckon that discussion is going to get long.
garvinhicking wrote:4. Please check the .tpl files for any missing i18n strings. I saw that some strings ("More") occured, without a {* i18n *} comment.
Grrrr. I was afraid that was going to happen, sorry. Will check.

YL
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:41 pm

Let's discuss the plugin selection in http://board.s9y.org/viewtopic.php?p=10438593#p10438593

YL
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by garvinhicking » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:10 pm

Hey,

as far as "design" goes - I'm completely against this. I think the differenation is quite easy:

- A "template file" is a part of a complete template
- A template is a collection of template files

So I don't think there's really confusion. It's MUCH cleaner than introducing a new name for that. People who check out older postings on this forum and the wiki will always read "templates" or "style" or "themes" already. Let's not confuse things up. I think we agree that "Style" is something we should deprecate.

So the only viable option apart from "template" would be "theme". I myself hate that term, and I never use it, so I personally wouldn't feel comfortable to use that term. But if everyone else prefers "Theme" instead of "Template", I would bow to that.

Onli, about the Plugin API and a pluginHTTPPath - it's only a config item plus the introspect_config_item thing. I don't see what the API could offer to make that easier, especially because the default value and a possible description could be specific to a plugin. If we would add a new method like in introspect() like $this->enable_plugin_httppath_config() then the central API for calling introspect_config_item() would need to check for that member variable, then inject its code, and possibly offer a way of adding a default variable. I find this more obstructing to an API, and impacting performance on all plugin calls, I don't think that would be reasonable...
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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by onli » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:03 pm

I prefer Design especially because it is not overloaded with different functionality and old definitions. Even outside of the scope of serendipity, this is how I understadn the word to work. So, in my eye, this is much cleaner…

But I prefer Theme to Template. At least Wordpress-compatible.

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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by yellowled » Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:49 pm

onli wrote:I prefer Design especially because it is not overloaded with different functionality and old definitions.
I can't think of any other system which uses “Design” to describe what we're talking about here, so it's also not very recognizable. You could even argue that while “Templates” describes the template files (.tpl), “Design” describes the stylesheets and images used. So both words don't describe very accurately what is meant. (Unfortunately.)
onli wrote:But I prefer Theme to Template. At least Wordpress-compatible.
I don't think WP compatibility should be a factor here, but the word does in fact describe best (even to non-devs!) what is meant …

So – “Themes”?

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Re: 2.0 End of Alpha Talk

Post by garvinhicking » Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:13 pm

Hi!

I can agree on themes. Who'd like to search&replace in the code? :)

Regards,
Garvin
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