Feature suggestion: sections

[yellowled]

Guys,

this is something I've been meaning to suggest/request for quite a while now. It's just kind of hard to describe without being too confusing, so please bear with me here

I'd like to see a concept implemented which is probably described best as "sections". A section would be a structural entity within s9y which in my humble opinion would really take the possibilities to another level, especially in terms of, wait for it, automatic generation of navigational elements.

A section is supposed to be some kind of abstract "container" assembling elements of a given s9y blog. The obvious elements which come to mind are entry categories and static pages, but it might come in handy to be able to assign other elements to a section as well -- HTML nuggets, FAQ
categories, categories in the download manager etc.

The potential power of this lies within automatically generated navigational elements. One could divide a blog into, say, three sections and have one element (a static page, a category) assigned to be the "start page" for a particular section. Then we'd (probably) need one or more sidebar plugins to emit the related elements of that section, i.e. emit a list of only those categories assigned to it.

I can imagine three szenarios which could really benefit from this concept:

1. multiple-topic blogs: I actually have one of those myself. I blog about various stuff, but I don't think many of my readers are interested in all of it. Sections would make it much easier for people to read just what they're actually interested in.

2. multi-user blog: Simple. Just assign a section per user.

3. corporate blogs/s9y as a CMS: This is where the concept actually is adapted from. I have done some of those for clients, and it is a real pain in the ass to hard-code that kind of navigation. Also really tough to maintain.

Now, I can't really estimate how hard this would be to implement -- that would be Garvin's call, I guess. I also have no idea whether this should be a core functionality (probably not, since it's not a typical blog feature) or whether (and how) it is possible to implement this as a plugin. It would probably have to be integrated into existing plugins as well (static pages, categories plugin etc.). I also realize we have a similar functionality with related categories in the static pages plugin, but I don't think those work quite as well.

So, insane or great idea?

YL

[Don Chambers]

So, insane or great idea?

I need to drink more coffee ..

[garvinhicking]

Hi!

To me this sounds like exactly the splitting part where a blog should not be used, but a real CMS.

Regards,
Garvin

[yellowled]

To me this sounds like exactly the splitting part where a blog should not be used, but a real CMS.

There is no emoticon for "banging one's head on the table" here, right?

Yes, you are right about that -- in an ideal web where everybody uses everything the way it is supposed to be used. Which people simply don't do for various reasons. Just consider the success of magazine-style templates (which almost always call for a CMS-like use of a blog engine).

I know you're no big fan of almost any kind of CMS-like feature -- I just don't think "I don't think a blog engine should be used for this" is a good argument for that. Then again, I also don't have any better argument for it than "I'd like to see this because I think a lot of people would find it useful".

YL

[garvinhicking]

Hi!

My reasoning is just that a thing like this, I don't see doable in a good way based on the current foundation. Serendipity all focuses on blog entries, static pags have their own table. What would be required for this is a distinct unique storage for every kind of metadata, to make them come into sections. Much more a design like in Typo3, for example.

Building sections like you imagine on top of s9y would both be a huge task, and in the end nowhere near as good as existing CMS solutions that were built with things like these in mind.

I really appreciate you trying to push s9y into areas that it currently does not fit in, but I still think that we need to fill a niche as a flexible framework for blogs and content mangement, but not for complete websites with differing content et al.

Then again, if anybody told me, he'd be fascinated at putting development hours into this, I'd have a look at the code of course

Regards,
Garvin

[Don Chambers]

I'm having a difficult time trying to understand YL's concept... probably because I ran out of coffee early in the day and didn't get my usual amount!

Garvin - what CMS do you believe already does this sort of thing? In fact, if you needed CMS features not contained within s9y, which would (or do) you use?

[yellowled]

Building sections like you imagine on top of s9y would both be a huge task, and in the end nowhere near as good as existing CMS solutions that were built with things like these in mind.

See, now, that's a horse of a different color. It is completely understandable that it doesn't make sense to implement it because of technical restrictions. And yes, of course I was aware that it might be hard to implement now because there are no "foundations" for a feature like that.

Being a "non-developing developer" I can only suggest stuff like this from a rather abstract point of view. I can not at all estimate how hard it would be to implement or if it is even possible at all. That's what you have to tell me

niche as a flexible framework for blogs and content mangement, but not for complete websites with differing content et al.

I consider this feature an essential part of content management. There are other things which we do have (as plugins) which I don't think we actually need or should have -- download manager, forum etc. Yet they exist ...

YL

[yellowled]

Garvin - what CMS do you believe already does this sort of thing?

Textpattern. At least that's where I got the idea in the first place

YL

[Don Chambers]

Garvin - what CMS do you believe already does this sort of thing?

Textpattern. At least that's where I got the idea in the first place

YL

I didn't get very far, but have looked briefly at Expression Engine.... I think the original author of Mimbo uses it. He has an article on his blog where he describes it as a "roll your own CMS"... it sounded very modular.

But like you, I keep trying to bend and morph s9y based on my needs.