Plugins shipped with s9y core

Discussion corner for Developers of Serendipity.
User avatar
garvinhicking
Core Developer
Posts: 30020
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:45 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by garvinhicking » Mon May 12, 2014 5:01 pm

OK, I took a fresh take on this, and have these suggestions:

Full current internal list:

Code: Select all

serendipity_event_contentrewrite
serendipity_event_karma
serendipity_event_searchhighlight
serendipity_event_bbcode
serendipity_event_creativecommons
serendipity_event_emoticate
serendipity_event_entryproperties
serendipity_event_livesearch
serendipity_event_mailer
serendipity_event_nl2br
serendipity_event_s9ymarkup
serendipity_event_spamblock
serendipity_event_spartacus
serendipity_event_statistics
serendipity_event_templatechooser
serendipity_event_textile
serendipity_event_textwiki
serendipity_event_trackexits
serendipity_event_weblogping
serendipity_event_xhtmlcleanup
serendipity_plugin_archives
serendipity_plugin_authors
serendipity_plugin_calendar
serendipity_plugin_categories
serendipity_plugin_comments
serendipity_plugin_creativecommons
serendipity_plugin_entrylinks
serendipity_plugin_eventwrapper
serendipity_plugin_history
serendipity_plugin_html_nugget
serendipity_plugin_plug
serendipity_plugin_quicksearch
serendipity_plugin_recententries
serendipity_plugin_remoterss
serendipity_plugin_shoutbox
serendipity_plugin_superuser
serendipity_plugin_syndication
serendipity_plugin_templatedropdown
serendipity_plugin_topexits
serendipity_plugin_topreferrers
Remove from Core:

Code: Select all

serendipity_event_contentrewrite
serendipity_event_karma
serendipity_event_searchhighlight
serendipity_event_livesearch
serendipity_event_textwiki
serendipity_event_trackexits
serendipity_event_weblogping
serendipity_plugin_shoutbox
Bundle from spartacus:

Code: Select all

I'd say none. NOTE: We can only bundle BSD plugins!


Currently installed by default:

Code: Select all

@serendipity_plugin_quicksearch
@serendipity_plugin_calendar
@serendipity_plugin_archives
@serendipity_plugin_categories
@serendipity_plugin_syndication
@serendipity_plugin_superuser
@serendipity_plugin_plug
serendipity_event_s9ymarkup
serendipity_event_emoticate
serendipity_event_nl2br
serendipity_event_spamblock
No longer install by default:

Code: Select all

@serendipity_plugin_quicksearch
@serendipity_plugin_calendar
New install by default:

Code: Select all

serendipity_event_spartacus
# Garvin Hicking (s9y Developer)
# Did I help you? Consider making me happy: http://wishes.garv.in/
# or use my PayPal account "paypal {at} supergarv (dot) de"
# My "other" hobby: http://flickr.garv.in/

User avatar
Timbalu
Regular
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 3:04 pm

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by Timbalu » Mon May 12, 2014 5:33 pm

Was easy, wasn't it? ;-)

I am fine with this, except bundle nothing from Spartacus.

I would strongly plead for bundling the bee and the new staticpage into core fullzip.
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

User avatar
garvinhicking
Core Developer
Posts: 30020
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:45 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by garvinhicking » Mon May 12, 2014 5:37 pm

Hi!
I would strongly plead for bundling the bee and the new staticpage into core fullzip.
If the default license for spartacus plugins really is GPL like we mentioned in the chat, we can't actually. We'd need to contact each contributor of those plugins to see if they agree with licensing the plugin as GPL.

Regards,
Garvin
# Garvin Hicking (s9y Developer)
# Did I help you? Consider making me happy: http://wishes.garv.in/
# or use my PayPal account "paypal {at} supergarv (dot) de"
# My "other" hobby: http://flickr.garv.in/

User avatar
Timbalu
Regular
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 3:04 pm

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by Timbalu » Mon May 12, 2014 5:57 pm

Is it still GPL if there is no explicit $propbag->add('copyright' '...') set?
Else we would need to ask loudly just this few....
Bee: Grischa Brockhaus, Janek Bevendorff
SP: Marco Rinck, Garvin Hicking, David Rolston, Falk Doering, Stephan Manske, Pascal Uhlmann, Ian, Don Chambers
There are also other contributers, which haven't been noted to the author bag. What about them, then?
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

User avatar
onli
Regular
Posts: 2231
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by onli » Mon May 12, 2014 6:27 pm

If the default license for spartacus plugins really is GPL like we mentioned in the chat, we can't actually.
Actually, I think we can. We wouldn't bundle the plugin into the zip, but let the installer download them via spartacus. Since we didn't redistribute them then, their licence doesn't need to match.

My Feedback: In general, I'm fine with your list. I would also move to spartacus:
serendipity_plugin_templatedropdown
serendipity_event_templatechooser
serendipity_event_textile
serendipity_event_bbcode
serendipity_plugin_shoutbox
Why bundle textile and not Markdown? Why have the clunky bb_code? And the others are mere gimmicks.

And I would probably bundle spamblock_bayes (since it is part of our default recommendation), but I understand if that is too clunky right now.

What about the Social-Share buttons? Even though I dislike them personally, I think they are core-essential.

After the plugin selection is made, I would like to go over the default settings.

User avatar
Timbalu
Regular
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 3:04 pm

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by Timbalu » Mon May 12, 2014 6:49 pm

Yes you are right - at least for templatedropdown, templatechooser and shoutbox. I missed that Garvin did not take them out the list.

The textile and markdown are in question, but they are no essential parts to start with, since already in are plain and wysiwyg editors.

Also the bayes plugin. You might ask "why the Bee then" and I would say "the Spamblock Plugin can not cover all current blog attacks and needs a simple but effective filter on the frontside". So a recent (simple) blog can live without bayes beyond spamblock, but not without the Bee in the front.

The bbcode plugin is odd, you are right, but it provides basic transformations.

Social-Share buttons is nothing in need to run a blog. IMO, keep in additional plugins.

Edit:
I remember we have thought about a new section "recommended plugins". That could integrate in upgrader and installer and load these plugins on request.

And remember, this new take is about bundling within a full core zip. The question of activated by default is another!
onli wrote:After the plugin selection is made, I would like to go over the default settings.
What do you mean with this?
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

User avatar
onli
Regular
Posts: 2231
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by onli » Mon May 12, 2014 8:38 pm

Timbalu wrote:
onli wrote:After the plugin selection is made, I would like to go over the default settings.
What do you mean with this?
For example the default of the syndication-plugin. It is by now totally uncommon (and unnecessary) to offer all these feeds by default. RSS-2.0 would suffice. Stuff like that. Later.

User avatar
yellowled
Regular
Posts: 7036
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:46 pm
Location: Eutin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by yellowled » Mon May 12, 2014 8:59 pm

onli wrote:Why bundle textile and not Markdown? Why have the clunky bb_code? And the others are mere gimmicks.
I would agree with BBCode. Textile vs Markdown is hard. While developers tend to prefer Markdown, we have quite a lot of users who like and use Textile, and switching between the two is not easy.
onli wrote:What about the Social-Share buttons? Even though I dislike them personally, I think they are core-essential.
I don't. I can't really argue it, I just don't. :)

YL
amazon Wishlist - Serendipity-Podcast (German only, sorry)

User avatar
yellowled
Regular
Posts: 7036
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:46 pm
Location: Eutin, Germany
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by yellowled » Mon May 12, 2014 9:05 pm

Timbalu wrote:templatedropdown, templatechooser and shoutbox
Agreed on those.

“My” candidates:

* serendipity_event_statistics – We often recommend not to use it in the forums but to prefer an external solution like Piwik or GA.
* serendipity_event_xhtmlcleanup – Might be kind of outdated in HTML5 blogs. Not sure about that one, though.

Another things is the general idea behind this – do we want to really slim-line the plugins shipped with the core to save space in the core? If so, I think there's many more which we could move to Spartacus. Some a rarely used (history, calendar, topexits, topreferrers), some might not match the “what you need to run a blog” description (mailer? eventwrapper?).

YL
amazon Wishlist - Serendipity-Podcast (German only, sorry)

User avatar
garvinhicking
Core Developer
Posts: 30020
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:45 pm
Location: Cologne, Germany
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by garvinhicking » Tue May 13, 2014 1:26 pm

Hi!
Actually, I think we can. We wouldn't bundle the plugin into the zip, but let the installer download them via spartacus. Since we didn't redistribute them then, their licence doesn't need to match.
Assuming we actually had an installer that downloaded stuff via spartacus. I don't see this for 2.0, it's actually not that easy and could lead to unfinalized installations if spartacus does not work (it is not setup yet, no mirror has been chosen on installation), also maybe due to network restrictions.
serendipity_plugin_templatedropdown
serendipity_event_templatechooser
serendipity_event_textile
serendipity_event_bbcode
serendipity_plugin_shoutbox
Textile and BBCode is quite common for comment markups, and I think it's nice to have something to pick from. I forgot about markdown, if it's BSD bundled we could put it into the release ZIP (otherwise same reason like staticpage/spambee).

I like the templatechooser things so that people can easily change frontend template after they installed s9y to play with. I wouldn't want them to first need to longer search for a plugin like this...

Shoutbox I already mentioned to be removed.
And I would probably bundle spamblock_bayes (since it is part of our default recommendation), but I understand if that is too clunky right now.
What about the Social-Share buttons? Even though I dislike them personally, I think they are core-essential.
I'm fine with that if they fit licensing-wise.

Regards,
Garvin
# Garvin Hicking (s9y Developer)
# Did I help you? Consider making me happy: http://wishes.garv.in/
# or use my PayPal account "paypal {at} supergarv (dot) de"
# My "other" hobby: http://flickr.garv.in/

LazyBadger
Regular
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Russia
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by LazyBadger » Sat May 17, 2014 6:07 am

As ordinary user of s9y with (ordinary) blogs and (rather common) requirements to blog-functionality I have to note: currently my "must-have bundle" (repeated on every blog) is complex mix of core and additional plugins. Just enumeration

serendipity_plugin_calendar (useful for alternative navigation)
serendipity_archives_plugin
serendipity_categories_plugin
serendipity_event_emoticate (commentators like it)
serendipity_event_gravatar (problemless avatars in comment is useless, but nice feature and small part of personalization)
serendipity_event_spamblock (or even new blog will be spam-filled fast)
serendipity_event_relatedlinks (additional internal links are good for retain readers, usefulness confirmed by the statistics of internal transitions)
serendipity_event_assigncategories (more than 1 category for post is casual use-case)
serendipity_event_freetag (blog without tags is just heap of letters now, not blog)
serendipity_event_twitter (everybody /sadly/ twit now)
serendipity_event_entryproperties (easiest way to get "bells and whistles" fast)

+ really for every not US-ASCII poster (words not in natural order is bad sign for readers - "lame blogger detected")
serendipity_event_sort
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

bernd_d
Regular
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:28 am
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by bernd_d » Sat May 17, 2014 1:41 pm

serendipity_event_textile
If i understand right, I think it would be better to remove textile from core so that it can be updated via spartacus without publishing a new s9y-release, as it happend in 1.7.

User avatar
Timbalu
Regular
Posts: 4598
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 3:04 pm

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by Timbalu » Sat May 17, 2014 7:08 pm

bernd_d wrote:If i understand right, I think it would be better to remove textile from core so that it can be updated via spartacus without publishing a new s9y-release...
That is our goal AFAIK, to make all current delivered core plugins also live in additional plugins. 2.0 is ready for this, we just have not copied them to that repository yet. (I think maybe all those -or some- will have to be marked as requiring 2.0 and up only.)

This thread here is about, which plugins at all to bundle with the 2.0 core release also, just to start with and the license matches or we are allowed to do this. I think we haven't decided yet, which ones to activate on default.
This can be handled strict, like only ship some very few already activated plugins, or this and some plugins, which we think are recommended plugins, but not activated by default.
Regards,
Ian

Serendipity Styx Edition and additional_plugins @ https://ophian.github.io/ @ https://github.com/ophian

User avatar
onli
Regular
Posts: 2231
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by onli » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:16 pm

I made the change in https://github.com/s9y/Serendipity/comm ... 14c31c8f81, mostly following garvins proposal.I'm sure we want to talk soon about that though.

One thing I don't like now after a reinstall of 2.0 is the powered by sidebar plugin, serendipity_plugin_plug. For one, the logo looks very old and out of place in 2k11, and it is totally redundant with the powered by notice in 2k11s footer.

I think we should include the plugin by default, but don't activate it and replace the logo with something better. We could ask in a separate thread the forum or on a design site for a new design.

User avatar
onli
Regular
Posts: 2231
Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 10:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Plugins shipped with s9y core

Post by onli » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:08 pm

LazyBadger wrote:serendipity_event_gravatar (problemless avatars in comment is useless, but nice feature and small part of personalization)
I really like that idea. Gravatar is one of those small but nice features a modern Serendipity should provide, in my eyes. I asked Grischa and he is alright with us integrating it into the core (I explained the licencing issue). If I don't hear a veto, I will just do that soon and we can discuss it later.

Post Reply