Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

[Don Chambers]

So is ours.

I didn't mean this to be a discussion of "mine" vs. "ours". I was trying to contribute to the thought process since I have been mostly on the receiving side of the s9y community.

However, I can't really tell much from those screenshots, I need to see code So it would be great if you could zip what you have and provide a download or point us to an URL where we can see it "in action".

The code is far from complete. I just barely have these concepts operational. I started with Carl's s9y 3 theme, so there is still a mountain of css to pour through. I still want to add a nav bar, some icons and a few other concepts. Topping it off is the fact that I am very much a novice at all of this. I am neither a designer nor a coder.... merely a guy with a computer that likes to tinker. You want to see things as they presently exist, or after I have had a few more rounds of fine-tuning? I tried to d/l yours for a comparison, but the link you originally posted to the ZIP file was broken when I tried it.

Anyway - it does look great, but not exactly what we're trying to do here.

Sorry - thought there were some concepts worth considering for your "bulletproof" template most notably treating page width items as 3 parts - left, center, and right, and treating sidebar items as 9 parts - styling these becomes a breeze. I thought this structure might open the door to those who have considerably more design talent than myself, increasing the template base for s9y.

You're virtually "one step further". We're trying to provide a bulletproof base code for us and other template designers to use for new templates.

If anything, what I have is likely to be very inferior to your code. I'm learning as I go, but you clearly have more experience in coding. I was merely presenting a few concepts that I had not seen discussed within this thread, but were worth considering for future templates.

[yellowled]

I didn't mean this to be a discussion of "mine" vs. "ours". I was trying to contribute to the thought process since I have been mostly on the receiving side of the s9y community.

I didn't, either, and you're of course welcome to contribute

The code is far from complete. I just barely have these concepts operational.

Owen, that's not the point What we're trying to do here is provide a very basic layout concept as a starting point for new themes. Graphics, icons, colors, fonts etc. - that's not what we want to provide, that's what template designers are supposed to add to this vanilla template.

Let's have a car comparison: We provide the engine, the chassis, and stuff like that - after that, template designers can use this "framework" to add paintwork and interiors

I am neither a designer nor a coder.... merely a guy with a computer that likes to tinker.

Well, that's just what we all are (Well, I am. Dave actually knows what he's doing ) This is no contest, we're trying to work together to make doing new templates easier for everyone. So go ahead and dump that code of yours somewhere

I tried to d/l yours for a comparison, but the link you originally posted to the ZIP file was broken when I tried it.

Yeah, sorry about that, I had some difficuties with my ftp client. http://www.yellowled.de/tmp/bulletproof.zip should work now. If you want to see it in action, take a look at http://sandbox.yellowled.de. PM me for a login and password so you can have a look at the theme options we already have in the styles config.

Sorry - thought there were some concepts worth considering for your "bulletproof" template most notably treating page width items as 3 parts - left, center, and right, and treating sidebar items as 9 parts - styling these becomes a breeze. I thought this structure might open the door to those who have considerably more design talent than myself, increasing the template base for s9y.

They are worth considering, but being a rather "non-graphical" guy, I need to see code

If anything, what I have is likely to be very inferior to your code. I'm learning as I go, but you clearly have more experience in coding. I was merely presenting a few concepts that I had not seen discussed within this thread, but were worth considering for future templates.

Owen, I assure you: This is not a contest. We are happy about any input. I'm really sorry if I gave any other impression

YL

[d_cee]

Hi

BTW, what do we do about the comment form? Use Jeff's code too?

For the work I've been doing on the contact form I've been using your comment form so both should be complete when (if!) I get finished. Probably the reason I'm not finished yet is that Jeff doesn't want any of his code re-distributing so I've been writing my own whilst learning from his.

That one's set to 75% for #wrapper now

that's great - either percentage makes it easier to work with.

The calendar arrows look good too - maybe we should use the grey 12x12 feed icon as that's the easiest to re-colour (according to the instructions on my site )

I'll download your latest zip tonight and take a good look and, if I ever get the site finished I'm working on, I should get the forms finished this weekend and send you the files.

Some of Don's suggestions about extra divs to make various objects and items easier to style graphically make sense. There's no point in us duplicating stuff though. We could incorporate his ideas in 'Bulletprooof' or, maybe it would be better for him to continue with his theme. It's the best way to learn - tinkering

Dave

[carl_galloway]

Hi guys, I'm back, although its going to be a bit hit and miss for me and I don't have anything to contribute to the discussion. I've downloaded the latest zipfile but won't be able to test it until later tonight or tomorrow morning. Its exciting to see Don mentioning another thread, good to see some discussion going on. I'll put in a longer reply in the next day or so.

[Don Chambers]

Some of Don's suggestions about extra divs to make various objects and items easier to style graphically make sense. There's no point in us duplicating stuff though. We could incorporate his ideas in 'Bulletprooof' or, maybe it would be better for him to continue with his theme. It's the best way to learn - tinkering :-)Dave

Yes - learning a lot from tinkering. Don't have everything perfect just yet, but am moving foward. If I can get a few things a bit more tidy, I will share what I have even though it will not be a "complete" template. At least then you guys can decide if the introduction of the concepts I have been discussinig are worthwhile, or can be improved upon.

Welcome back Carl!

[yellowled]

For the work I've been doing on the contact form I've been using your comment form so both should be complete when (if!) I get finished. Probably the reason I'm not finished yet is that Jeff doesn't want any of his code re-distributing so I've been writing my own whilst learning from his.

That's a for you for doing both contact and comment and a for Jeff for making you rewrite existing code... well, maybe this way it will be easier to adapt it the way we like it.

The calendar arrows look good too - maybe we should use the grey 12x12 feed icon as that's the easiest to re-colour (according to the instructions on my site )

I like that. I'll include the grey one next time.

YL

[Don Chambers]

Anyone have a clean solution for the number of nav links? Hard coding 4 or 5 seems to offer certain limitations to the user if they want more, or less IMHO. I do, however, realize a theme design may require a limitation due the screen location of the links.

[yellowled]

Anyone have a clean solution for the number of nav links? Hard coding 4 or 5 seems to offer certain limitations to the user if they want more, or less IMHO. I do, however, realize a theme design may require a limitation due the screen location of the links.

Yes, thanks to the incredible Mr. Hicking we do have code for that. Check http://board.s9y.org/viewtopic.php?t=7513 - this is the code we're using for the bulletproof template.

[Don Chambers]

Thanks YL - just quickly read the thread..... now I have a headache! I think I am simply going to swipe the code from you this time around!

[yellowled]

Thanks YL - just quickly read the thread..... now I have a headache! I think I am simply going to swipe the code from you this time around!

Yeah, I know, sometimes you feel a little dizzy after reading Garvin's posts

What I wanted to add earlier but couldn't because the #!&? keyboard my girlfriend uses broke down: of course this isn't perfect. Depending on the way you display the menu, it might break the layout if there are too many links. But that's something we have to live with I guess

However, the code works pretty great. I use it myself

YL

[Don Chambers]

You guys have been discussing the XML gifs & calendar arrow. I also mentioned in another thread that I am using the calendar arrows for next/prev pages. These things are, at present, hard coded to a specific file name. I'll add one more example of this - the graph bar image. Perhaps there are others.

Prior to starting my own re-write of the entries_archives.tpl, I wisely checked YL's latest bulletproof zip, and sure enough, found he had already blown away the tables and replaced them with a pretty cleaver ul. HOWEVER, there it is again - the hard coded image.

I plan to include a few color variations to the template I am presently creating. For simplicity, lets say the colorsets will be red, blue and green. Odds are pretty good that I might want different calendar arrows, different feed icons, and different bar graph images for each of these 3 color sets of the SAME TEMPLATE. At present, I can only have a single file for each of these images. Dave's coffee bar theme is a good example of that.

So, where is the best place to resolve this? I was thinking that maybe a variable can be set within config.inc.php that works in conjunction with a colorset selection, so if I select my "Blue" colorset, I am automatically changing my calendar arrows, feed icons, graph bar and any other hard coded images. The tpl files could then be revised to reflect these variables rather than "left.gif", etc.

I'm already in way over my head on this template stuff, my head is still spinning from the thread regarding dynamic links, so I have no clue if this is 1) a decent idea nor 2) how to go about implementing it.

The input of you pros would be greatly appreciated!!!!

[yellowled]

Soooo ... Dave has emailed me that the form code by Jeff H. is a pain in the rear end to style, which in my book is a big no-no. Dave and I have agreed to go with "my" form code (I "borrowed it somewhere else also, so it isn't really mine) using definition lists. So there's a new zipfile and the sandbox has been updated. This also has updated .tpl files for the contact form, but for obvious reasons I don't want a contact form in a temporary sandbox blog, so you guys will have to check that one out in your own dev blogs

I haven't yet managed to include the grey feed icon, but I'll try and remember to do that the next time I update it. I also want to try something that might give us the opportunity to use different graphics for different colorsets like Don suggested - great idea, Don, but I'm not sure whether it's going to work out

So, let's hear what you guys think. I'd especially like to hear whether there's something missing in terms of CSS code and/or .tpl files. Anything else that we should cover? Other than that, I'm probably more or less out for the weekend - tough schedule, I might be swamped 'til Monday. Which of course, is nothing new

YL

[yellowled]

Just another quick, teeny tiny fix - found some time to add the grey feed icon and fix the width for the directions on comment/contact form. Zipfile and sandbox have been updated, same URLs as usual.

YL

[d_cee]

Hi YL

I've made a couple of changes to the contact form for a client's site I'm working on which you can take a look at here. I think it would be pretty easy to add a notes box to the 'Bulletproof' code too. The 'validation' box is set up in the spamblock plugin so maybe not that box though

Let me know what you think. I'll take a look through all your other improvements over the weekend.

Dave

[yellowled]

Let me know what you think. I'll take a look through all your other improvements over the weekend.

Love it, scrapbooked it (great FF extension, BTW!), will try to incorporate it tonight

BTW, Dave, which of your sites would you like to be used in the footer link? Your themes page?

YL