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Board index Themes Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

Skinning and designing Serendipity (CSS, HTML, Smarty)
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yellowled
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Postby yellowled » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:46 pm

Don Chambers wrote:Not so much of a "problem"... what I thought would happen is that #content would simply take up whatever remained after sidebar widths were set. That does not appear to be the case - #content must also be defined, as must #wrapper (I think).

I'm not sure, but maybe that's just the case in IE. Haven't used that kind of layout in quite some time :)

Don Chambers wrote:I'm fine going into a holding pattern right now. I do, however, suggest that BP zipfile updates continue to be downloadable from YL's sandbox, and Dave be the sole point of updating the s9y-bp site with the latest release.

Hm. Actually, I was thinking about shutting the sandbox down altogether now that Dave's site is up and running. Seems confusing to have two environments for this. I'm also not sure whether we'd want to provide bp downloads on s9y-bulletproof.com - I think it should be on spartacus, if Garvin agrees.

Don Chambers wrote: Must be evening on your side of the pond!! Lots of discussion all of a sudden!!! :)

Yeah, well, if there was something on TV and my girlfriend wasn't buried in work, I probably wouldn't be writing this right now ... :wink:

YL

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Don Chambers
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Postby Don Chambers » Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:25 pm

Your sandbox, so it is ultimately your choice. I was looking at your sandbox as a development platform, and Dave's as a showcase & documentation platform. Regardless, if you have the ability to make the "official modifications" to the BP zipfile, and install the latest version on Dave's site, then I guess we do not necessarily need them both.

I do not personally see any conflict having a download link for BP on Dave's site. For my own purposes, I need access to a zip file, not just spartacus.

One other thing - prior to the next zipfile release, how about adding a txt extension to your text files (change log, todo, etc). Makes it a bit more clear as to the file type when someone is merely looking at the contents of the zipfile or template folder. Adding to the list, I would suggest a basic admin style (or styles for each colorset) and also a thumbnail screenshot once we have committed to the default colorsets.

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Postby yellowled » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:04 am

Don Chambers wrote:Your sandbox, so it is ultimately your choice. I was looking at your sandbox as a development platform, and Dave's as a showcase & documentation platform. Regardless, if you have the ability to make the "official modifications" to the BP zipfile, and install the latest version on Dave's site, then I guess we do not necessarily need them both.

I always figured the sandbox was kind of pointless since everybody seemed to have their own devblog (xampp etc.) and preferred to install the zipfile there, so I don't think we really need it any longer. I'm doing modifications on my local machine anyway, and it should be no problem to install the latest version on s9y-bulletproof.

Don Chambers wrote:I do not personally see any conflict having a download link for BP on Dave's site. For my own purposes, I need access to a zip file, not just spartacus.

Which is exactly what spartacus offers - both a zipfile and a version which can be installed using the spartacus plugin. And after all, it saves us a lot of hassle to keep the versions on different locations "in sync" if there's only one download location. Plus, it will (hopefully) be included in the s9y core distribution.

Don Chambers wrote:One other thing - prior to the next zipfile release, how about adding a txt extension to your text files (change log, todo, etc). Makes it a bit more clear as to the file type when someone is merely looking at the contents of the zipfile or template folder.

Actually, I don't want to include them in the final release at all :) The ToDo file is really for developers only, and hopefully, it will become obsolete one fine day since there is nothing "ToDo" :) The ChangeLog (they don't have .txt extensions since I'm working on a linux system which doesn't need extensions) could be part of the doc-blog as a static page.

Don Chambers wrote:Adding to the list, I would suggest a basic admin style (or styles for each colorset) and also a thumbnail screenshot once we have committed to the default colorsets.

Thumbnail is very important, good that you remembered that. I probably would have forgotten that one :oops: Personally, I think admin style(s) are optional eye candy. If Dave (or someone else) finds the time to do that, great. If not, we can always add them later.

YL

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Don Chambers
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Postby Don Chambers » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:39 am

Well, if we are demonstrating a bulletproof template as something of a comprehensive starting point for designers, we should do with admin what we have done with the user interface. Of course, when I say "WE" should do it, I really mean DAVE should do it!!! LMAO!!!! Just kidding!!!

Obviously, the forthcoming ability of backend templating, offers a LOT of potential functionality, and that will probably take a generation or 2 to fully understand and exploit. However, I really just meant some basic css on the admin side. I have never looked at styling the admin side. From what I see, looks like there is an admin folder under the template folder, and that contains a single style.css. Is this correct? Does this automatically imply that any given template can only have ONE admin style, despite the fact that we can have numerous colorsets? I suppose once the backend has smarty templating, we can probably use if statements to load different stylesheets much as we do in the frontend index.tpl now.

I have a screenshot in mind, and will do it in photoshop once we are confident we have colorsets all wrapped up. I even thought of doing a derivative of one of Dave's, either that, or actually doing a graphic one, just not sure if there is sufficient time before the pending 1.2 release.

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Postby d_cee » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:38 am

Hi Don / YL

I took a look at the admin myself when Garvin posted his announcement and decided to leave it till I've more time. The .tpl files are all tables rather than divs so I figured it might take me a while to strip then all out - and make it work cross browser. If we are to do a completely new backend, which in my view we should, we'll need to do a similar exercise to what we've already done with the frontend if it's to be bulletproof!

cheers

Dave

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Postby garvinhicking » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:07 pm

Hi!

Just keep in mind, if you do a new backend, it will probably need constant updating. Whenever we add functionality to the backend, it will outdate backend templates.

Whatever can be done to the default backend to support easier CSS styling, should be done there. :)

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Garvin
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Postby yellowled » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:16 pm

garvinhicking wrote:Just keep in mind, if you do a new backend, it will probably need constant updating. Whenever we add functionality to the backend, it will outdate backend templates.

I don't really understand this, which is probably due to the fact that I haven't looked at styling the admin backend yet. Could you elaborate this a little? Does it mean whenever there's a new feature in the backend, it will need styling?

YL

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Postby garvinhicking » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:24 pm

Hi!

If we, for example, decide to add tagging into the serendipity core by default, it would mean that extra HTML output for that needs to be added to the backend. If your template doesn'T have it, it will then need it, and thus you need to edit your template time and again to always support the latest and greatest feature enhancements to the serendipity backend.

Like, if we also decide to add a third content box for "RSS Feed content", you would need to add that to your backend template, because else the user would not have that field.

This is one of the main reasons why the backend was not templated in the past. It's a lot of work to keep maintained for template authors, and can get easily outdated.

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Garvin
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Postby d_cee » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:28 pm

Hi

it seems then, if I understand correctly, that it's only worth styling the .css file in the admin and it's not really worthwhile editing the .tpl files as they will get overwritten with new features as they are introduced - despite them being table rather than div based.

Unless a new backend was adopted as the default backend for all templates :-)

Have any of the useabilty study conclusions come back yet?

Dave

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garvinhicking
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Postby garvinhicking » Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:58 pm

Hi!

Sadly no usability study results have surfaced. I am not sure about the circumstances. :(

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Postby Don Chambers » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:19 pm

OK - sounds like CSS for now, if at all.

Question on the colorsets guys - and this is likely due to my extended absense, but why does the config.inc.php show this:

Code: Select all
$template_config = array(
    array(
        'var'           => 'colorset',
        'name'          => THEME_COLORSET,
        'description'   => THEME_COLORSET_DESC,
        'type'          => 'select',
        'default'       => 'purple',
        'select_values' => array('default' => BP_COLORSET_DEF,
             'purple' => BP_COLORSET_OPT1,
             'blue' => BP_COLORSET_OPT2,
                                 'green' => BP_COLORSET_OPT3)


And lang_en.inc.php shows this:
Code: Select all
@define('BP_COLORSET_DEF', 'Blank');
@define('BP_COLORSET_OPT1', 'Purple');
@define('BP_COLORSET_OPT2', 'Blue');
@define('BP_COLORSET_OPT3', 'Green');


And yet the drop-down color choice shows Violett?????

Also - is Dave's posted colorset on s9y-bp a replacement for the purple_style.css that has been unmodified in the zipfile since 3/28, or is this a new "violett_style.css"????

Also @Dave - it does not look like you are using the latest modifications at s9y_bp, specifically, the stuff I posted recently about margin changes... is this correct, or has YL not updated the zipfile?

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Postby d_cee » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:33 pm

Hi Don

I uploaded the latest bp from yl's zip to the website and your changes were posted here later so I've not incorporated them into the stylesheets yet.

I've been planning the styling guide for the website at work today and I've done some more on my template design - I'll get around to your amends soon :-) I hope!

cheers

Dave

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Postby yellowled » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:16 pm

Hi guys,
d_cee wrote:I uploaded the latest bp from yl's zip to the website and your changes were posted here later so I've not incorporated them into the stylesheets yet.

In order not to confuse any files, I'll wait until Dave states "I'm done with the colorsets". I'll then get the colorset css files via ftp, merge them with the bulletproof snapshot on my workstation and update s9y-bulletproof.com (also via ftp). And of course I'll provide a zipfile on my website.

We should then probably take some time to test this zipfile carefully on our home machines for bugs and issues. I suggest everyone concentrates on his platform, i.e. I'll check the Linux browsers, Dave the Mac browsers and Don the Windows browsers. I'll also do some Win tests since I assume Don still hasn't updated his IE6 :wink:

YL

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Don Chambers
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Postby Don Chambers » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:30 pm

Sounds good everyone. Now... can someone explain my purple vs. violett question??!! :lol:

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Postby yellowled » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:59 am

Don Chambers wrote:Sounds good everyone. Now... can someone explain my purple vs. violett question??!! :lol:

Yes, I can. It's a typo in UTF-8/lang_en.inc.php, or probably rather a copy&paste mistake. Once I do the update, you'll see "Purple" again, I promise :)

YL

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