Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

Skinning and designing Serendipity (CSS, HTML, Smarty)
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:One other thing regarding those colorsets I sent out. Need the following:

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#serendipity_banner {clear: both}
Without that, the navbar wipes out part of the banner when the navbar is located above the banner. Did not notice that until this morning.

I am also wondering if this addition, plus a few of the other lines of code in the colorset.css files should be in style.css and/or base.css.
If they are needed by all colorsets, they should - if it's only to save some space :) Please remind me to not forget this particular fix once I start merging those CSS elements to either one of the above stylesheets.

Okay, so I have done at least some testing under Windows - I think we have too many features now to carefully test any possible configuration in any browser without going nuts :wink: As far as I can see, Don's latest bugfixing frenzy seems pretty successful, at least I didn't see anything bad besides the following:

a) most of the colorsets have one or more issues in IE < 6 - personally, I say "Screw IE < 6"; so these issues are - in my humble opinion - neglectable

b) I have only tested this with the navbar above the header, but in that case hovering a link "makes the navbar bigger". Unfortunately, this happens in all modern browsers (and in the green and blue colorset, for that matter), so we're gonna have to fix that one.

Despite that, I'm fine with Don's fixes, but I'd rather wait for a decision by Dave on this since he knows the colorset stylesheet much better than I do.

Anyway, great job Don! I think we're gonna have to call you the "Yoda of bughunting" from now on :lol: Seriously, way to go.

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

yellowled wrote:a) most of the colorsets have one or more issues in IE < 6 - personally, I say "Screw IE < 6"; so these issues are - in my humble opinion - neglectable

b) I have only tested this with the navbar above the header, but in that case hovering a link "makes the navbar bigger". Unfortunately, this happens in all modern browsers (and in the green and blue colorset, for that matter), so we're gonna have to fix that one.
What's this about the navbar getting bigger on hover? I do not get that in IE6 nor FF 1.5. How about you Dave?

The navbar has been the one thorn in my side With all the variations, it was difficult to come up with a single method that worked in all situations. The only real problem with what Dave was doing before was that the list items were not stacking up next to each other correctly. He used a negative margin to compensate, but that was falling apart at larger text sizes. I had used this particular method once before, and it seemed to work fine, but that was in a template VERY different from BP.
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Post by Don Chambers »

There have been templates in the past that included a style for "no entries to print". I suggest we add this to entries.tpl as follows:

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{if not $plugin_clean_page}
     <div class="serendipity_overview_noentries">{$CONST.NO_ENTRIES_TO_PRINT}</div>
{/if}
Again - it is just the div with a class that is being added.. the code is already present.
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yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:What's this about the navbar getting bigger on hover? I do not get that in IE6 nor FF 1.5.
I was getting the following this afternoon: Set the navbar above the header and the colorset to green or blue. Hover over a navbar link and the height of the navbar link shifts because of the border-bottom below the hovered link. We'll see if Dave can confirm this or not. Maybe my xampp installation is just shot.

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

I definitely do not get that behavior in ie6 and ff1.5 on a WinXP box.

Can you put those colorsets on your sandbox so we are all viewing the exact same thing, with only our machines/browsers being the variable? FWIW - I too get very strange XAMPP behavior from time to time. One of these days, I am going to completely uninstall it and start over.

Anyway, I want to get this navbar thing under control because I have one other contribution to make, but I'm not going to do that until we have stable navbar behavior.

Also feel free to try some other method for #sitenav and its UL, LI & anchors. I tried several methods, but this was the best I could come up with.

EDIT: I know why you see it and I do not. My sandbox has the first link as "home" and it is being styled by .currentpage. It is also my only real link, so I am always looking at the homepage. When I look at the archive page for a month with no entries, and therefore am no longer on my homepage, I see what you mean. Simple fix.
Add this, in both green and blue colorsets, to #sitenav ul a:

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border-bottom: 4px solid transparent;
Also, don't forget to add clear:both to #banner, and I'd like some input regarding my suggestion for changing the name of that second banner div as mentioned in my email.

EDIT 2: Here is a little tease regarding this "other contribution" I was referring to... that is, if you guys want it in BP: http://chicagoloopcruise.com/library/s9y_bp_qs.jpg
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yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:FWIW - I too get very strange XAMPP behavior from time to time.
Yeah, I remember. Maybe xampp isn't always the best solution ...
Don Chambers wrote:Simple fix. Add this, in both green and blue colorsets, to #sitenav ul a:
Done, as well as all the other fixes from the past few days.
Don Chambers wrote:I'd like some input regarding my suggestion for changing the name of that second banner div as mentioned in my email.
Oops, I must have overread that in the first place ... let's see ... ah, yes. Good call, also changed to #serendipity_below_header.

And, erm, considering any reference to my sandbox - I have to admit I deleted it in the meantime since I figured we didn't need it anymore ...
Don Chambers wrote:Here is a little tease regarding this "other contribution" I was referring to... that is, if you guys want it in BP
I assume it's about the quicksearch box in the navbar? How does this work if the quicksearch plugin is not installed?

An updated zipfile is available at http://www.yellowled.de/tmp/bulletproof.zip which includes the last fixes from this thread. I have not yet merged the colorsets with Don's suggested fixes but put those into a seperate directory. Let's wait for Dave's call on those.

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

yellowled wrote:Oops, I must have overread that in the first place ... let's see ... ah, yes. Good call, also changed to #serendipity_below_header.
Need to get this banner vs. header wording figured out. In other words, need to stop using the word "header". Suggest either #serendipity_below_banner or #serendipity_banner_2. I also suggest the language file be changed regarding navbar position - from "above the header" to "above the banner", etc.
I assume it's about the quicksearch box in the navbar? How does this work if the quicksearch plugin is not installed?
I dunno. Quicksearch is installed by default, so I guess I had not considered what would happen if it was removed. The idea was a config.inc.php option to "include quicksearch in navigation bar?" option so there would certainly be a way to turn it off. If the entire concept is a bit much, I can just save it for my grey colorset.
An updated zipfile is available at http://www.yellowled.de/tmp/bulletproof.zip which includes the last fixes from this thread. I have not yet merged the colorsets with Don's suggested fixes but put those into a seperate directory. Let's wait for Dave's call on those.
YL
Anything Dave has from me needs a little updating, as you are the only one who has made the changes I have suggested after I sent them out via email. Suggest you retain a copy of the old ones somewhere (I also have them) and include the new ones in the zip file. Dave can always change the newer ones if needed, but I am fairly sure there should be nothing to change as the new ones are merely improvements, not a change of concept or design. I did want him to read through my comments in the email versions of the stylesheets though just so we were all aware of what was being changed, and why, especially since the s9y-bp colorset might benefit from similar modifications.
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:Need to get this banner vs. header wording figured out. In other words, need to stop using the word "header". Suggest either #serendipity_below_banner or #serendipity_banner_2. I also suggest the language file be changed regarding navbar position - from "above the header" to "above the banner", etc.
I don't think so. The header is still the header, even if no banner is used :) Yes, it is called #serendipity_banner "traditionally", which I think isn't too suitable, but what can we do? At least I do consider a banner to be an image within the header, but you're the native speaker, so how do you see this?
Don Chambers wrote:Quicksearch is installed by default, so I guess I had not considered what would happen if it was removed. The idea was a config.inc.php option to "include quicksearch in navigation bar?" option so there would certainly be a way to turn it off. If the entire concept is a bit much, I can just save it for my grey colorset.
I'm not saying it's a bit much, I'd just like to check out what happens if the plugin isn't present. Could you check that out (since you already seem to have everything required in your dev blog)?
Don Chambers wrote:Suggest you retain a copy of the old ones somewhere (I also have them) and include the new ones in the zip file. Dave can always change the newer ones if needed, but I am fairly sure there should be nothing to change as the new ones are merely improvements, not a change of concept or design.
With Dave out of the picture for a while, here's what I suggest: I'll keep three different copies on my machine - Dave's original colorsets, yours with the comments and one which merges both of them without the comments, the latter one to be included in a new zipfile. That way, we'll have everything backed up. However, it's going to take me some days to upload a new zipfile, I'm kind of busy over the next couple of days.

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

In tems of what happens if quicksearch is uninstalled, I think it is a safe bet it will not work. That is assuming quicksearch CAN be uninstalled. Perhaps there is some kind of {if} that can test for whether or not that particular plugin is installed. Need to get Garvin's input on that one.

EDIT: Looks like quicksearch functionality remains even if the plugin is removed. Must be part of the core code. Now it is just a question of whether or not we want this in BP, or if it will wait until I release that grey template.

The issue with the banner/header was just one of consistency. I suggest we use the same vocabulary, and since we use #serendipity_banner and #serendipity_banner h1/h2 - I figured #serendipity_below_banner or #serendipity_banner_2 was better than #serendiptiy_below_header.

Another choice could be a complete renaming to #serendipity_banner_top and #serendipity_banner_bottom. Either that, or change every instance of "banner" to "header". Again, I was just trying to be consistent, and since we are introducing a container that has never existed before, we have the opportunity to name it anything we wish, so why not be consistent? Ultimately, it is not a huge issue. Make a choice and we will stick with it.

As far as the colorsets - there really is no "merge" necessary, which would imply combining the old with the new. All that is necessary is removing my comments and declarations my code changes from the old. Do you want me to make those changes and send you new files, or have you already done that (plus the <li> border and clear:both to banner)??

And what is with this "going to take some days"???? Now who needs the butt kicking???!!! :lol: :lol:
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:Looks like quicksearch functionality remains even if the plugin is removed. Must be part of the core code. Now it is just a question of whether or not we want this in BP, or if it will wait until I release that grey template.
I'd love to have it, especially combined with a switch in the theme options. However, we should definitely check out possible issues with the plugin installed or not. Man, it sucks Carl is not around, I know he's done this before. We'll have to dig his blog and the forums for more detailed information on this matter.
Don Chambers wrote:The issue with the banner/header was just one of consistency. I suggest we use the same vocabulary, and since we use #serendipity_banner and #serendipity_banner h1/h2 - I figured #serendipity_below_banner or #serendipity_banner_2 was better than #serendiptiy_below_header.
Okay, so I'll flip a coin tonight when I get back to the code and decide which one to actually use :lol:
Don Chambers wrote:As far as the colorsets - there really is no "merge" necessary, which would imply combining the old with the new. All that is necessary is removing my comments and declarations my code changes from the old. Do you want me to make those changes and send you new files, or have you already done that (plus the <li> border and clear:both to banner)??
I do have the li border and the clearfix, and I'll get to revising the colorsets tonight or tomorrow morning. However, I haven't really looked at your comments and changes in detail, and that's why it's going to take some time. I don't want to make any errors by rushing this. We're not that much in a hurry.

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

As I mentioned - there are NO issues as far as I can tell when the quicksearch plugin is removed. The quicksearch functionality seems to be built into the core code, and the plugin is merely making it available in the sidebar. So - it works in the navbar regardless. The code is, essentially, Carl's. I "borrowed" it from one of his ports before I ever became involved with BP. I have simply fine tuned everything to work in BP. I have also modified the sidebar so that the quicksearch plugin is suppressed if the navbar quicksearch is enabled. All of this functionality is only available for the horizontal navbars - not when navigation is enabled in the sidebar.

You finish your colorset changes, then I will send you the modified config.inc.php, index.tpl, sidebar.tpl, and colorset modifications for all this quicksearch stuff..... unless you want all this before assembling your next zipfile. If so, drop me an email.
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:You finish your colorset changes, then I will send you the modified config.inc.php, index.tpl, sidebar.tpl, and colorset modifications for all this quicksearch stuff.
Okay, so I have reviewed the colorset changes (i.e. removed the comments and redundant lines), backed up Dave's original colorsets and yours including the comments and uploaded a new snapshot zipfile.

I have also backed up the templates files from s9y-bulletproof.com and overwritten those with the latest snapshot. Of course, that means Dave's s9y-bp colorset won't work anymore (yes, I forgot about that while uploading the update), so I've switched it to purple for the time being. I'll see if I can work Dave's s9y-bp colorset back in, but I think it's more important we get this finished first.

So, what's left to do? My ToDo list says removing the ToDo list itself and the ChangeLog (to be migrated into an entry on s9y-bp) from the zipfile and maybe style the admin backend. I think we should drop the latter one for the time being and save it for a possible future release. It just seems too much work for now, especially since none of us is really experienced styling the admin backend - or are you?

Despite that, there's only your quicksearch stuff left, so I'm expecting an email with those files attached. Oh, and of course we should start populating s9y-bp with actual documentation :)

YL
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Post by Don Chambers »

Email sent with attached files, so the navbar quicksearch is more, or less, complete.

You want to just do a draft entry on s9y-bp for a to-do list, or did you have something else in mind?

I have never attempted an admin style, but what could be so hard about it, right?!!! LOL!! I might have a look at that just for fun.

We need to wrap up the footer. Include the button? Also - do we want to use language specific variables for "Template by"? I think that was one of my original intents when I first suggested it to Garvin. If we do not have something like {$CONST.POWERED_BY} for the template author, perhaps we should create our own. The same applies for "based on the bulletproof template", unless that text disappears in favor of the button. And as long as we are discussing language, I suppose our to-do list could include soliciting other s9y users for language file translations.
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Post by Don Chambers »

I started messing around with styling the admin interface. Not yet sure if the best approach is starting from scratch, or editing the default, which will require a fair amount of cleaning up.

Anyway, my first instinct was to style it similar to the purple colorset.... but then I wondered something.... Do you think that might be confusing when someone selects a different colorset, say blue, but the admin interface does not change? I really do not want to create a tpl at this point since that functionality is so new, and Garvin has already warned that future features might require that tpl to change.
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:You want to just do a draft entry on s9y-bp for a to-do list, or did you have something else in mind?
Actually, I was hoping to have the ToDo list cleaned out when we release this, so it shouldn't be on s9y-bp at all :) I was referring to the ChangeLog.
Don Chambers wrote:We need to wrap up the footer. Include the button?
I say stick with a text link for the time being. I tend to mistrust image links, plus Dave didn't seem too happy with the button, at least I remember him asking for other suggestions for that. However, it's really not that important, so let's just stick with the text link.
Don Chambers wrote:Also - do we want to use language specific variables for "Template by"? I think that was one of my original intents when I first suggested it to Garvin. If we do not have something like {$CONST.POWERED_BY} for the template author, perhaps we should create our own. The same applies for "based on the bulletproof template", unless that text disappears in favor of the button.
I seem to remember discussing something like this with Garvin earlier, I only have to find it. Must be somewhere in the German forum. If I can dig it up, I'll put it in the next snapshot, which should also have your quicksearch stuff.

EDIT: Gee, that was fast. So I found the thread about overwriting or introducing new constants. However, this requires a value to be set in serendipity_config_local.inc.php, which can only be done by the blog admin ... so I don't think this will work flawlessly. Plus, personally I don't think it's worth the effort.
Don Chambers wrote:And as long as we are discussing language, I suppose our to-do list could include soliciting other s9y users for language file translations.
That's definitely something we should do, however I suggest to put it on hold for a while so translators don't have to redo their work because we decide to change something :)

As for styling the admin backend (you do realize you have a weird concept of "fun", right? :wink:):
Don Chambers wrote:Anyway, my first instinct was to style it similar to the purple colorset.... but then I wondered something.... Do you think that might be confusing when someone selects a different colorset, say blue, but the admin interface does not change?
Actually, I think it would confuse most users if it did change. I also think the style of the admin backend doesn't necessarily have to be related to the colorsets at all.

YL
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