Brainstorming: What do we "need" template-wise?

Skinning and designing Serendipity (CSS, HTML, Smarty)
d_cee
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Post by d_cee »

Hi Guys

Great template Don, however, like YL I too would not include it in the distribution. When I did the 3 coloursets I tried to keep them similar - and simple - so I'm not entirely sure what you mean by the following.
Not sure if Dave ever revised the green and blue colorsets, but they were both very different from each other, and the purple set, which was never really included in its present form, was likewise different from the first 2
Your template, I feel, is ideal to start off the Library of coloursets as it is so different from what I envisaged being released with bp.

cheers

Dave
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

I just now uploaded the latest snapshot to http://www.yellowled.de/tmp/bulletproof.zip in case you guys would like to adjust your colorsets to the latest additions (i.e. all the empty divs we were talking about, including the #belowheader div).

Dave, I haven't found the time to update s9y-bulletproof.com to those files yet, will you do that? BTW: You're not done with the colorsets yet, are you? I don't want to rush you, I'm just checking.

YL
d_cee
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Post by d_cee »

Hi YL

I'll do that later this afternoon -and make sure the latest colourset files are there too. The only thing remaining to do on the coloursets is to add the selected class for the navbar links and style the sidebar below option - so I'll do that too. Do you think we should add a 'home' link that's pre-selected to the navbars?

And I've still quite a bit to do on the s9y-bp template but I've started getting the styling guide together so things are moving on.

Dave
Don Chambers
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Post by Don Chambers »

Dave - Now that I take a closer look, I guess what I meant by different from each other really applies mostly to the purple vs the green/blue, and mostly in the navbar and banner.

Despite what you see, this grey colorset is really not that different. The css file is quite similar to the purple one, and in more ways than not, identical - due largely to the fact that I started with the purple one and started making modifications and corrections.

My incentive to pursue this was threefold: demonstrate a graphically based design, style the sidebar footer, and equally important - correct some css code in the existing colorsets that I felt was less than ideal (negative margins is just one example) or elements missing entirely (such as the currentpage class).

I thought the whole purpose here was to provide a decent example for other template designers. While there is a lot we cannot possibly cover, I think this colorset provides another beneficial example AND cleans up a few things that can then be used to likewise clean up the other colorsets. Seems ashame to exclude it from BP given the fact that it is, despite your first impression, nearly the same as the existing colorsets.

As far as a home link, one of my next tasks was going to be to replace one of the existing navlinks, most likely "music", and make one of them "home". I was going to take that further and try to make the link url equal to $serendipityBaseURL and the link text equal to $CONST.HOMEPAGE..... assuming that worked somewhere between the config.inc.php and language files.
=Don=
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:My incentive to pursue this was threefold: demonstrate a graphically based design, style the sidebar footer, and equally important - correct some css code in the existing colorsets that I felt was less than ideal (negative margins is just one example) or elements missing entirely (such as the currentpage class).
That's just why I'd much rather see this in a seperate zipfile. There may be lots of people out there who don't want or need another colorset in the "basic" bp - they might just want to get the template files and get started on their own templates :)

My idea for the colorsets provided in the "basic" bp has always been this: Basically, I'd like to ship it with no colorsets, because that would be a really good starting point for new templates. Just a sheet of white paper. However, some people might want to use this as a template and not as a framework, so let's give those people two or three colorsets to choose from. That's exactly what Dave provided.

Also, think about what someone has to do who's building their own template based on bulletproof - there's already a lot of stuff to be removed if you want to get rid of the basic colorsets. Let's not overload it. It's absolutely okay to release bp and have some templates based on it ready at the same time, so why squeeze this in if there's no need to?
Don Chambers wrote:As far as a home link, one of my next tasks was going to be to replace one of the existing navlinks, most likely "music", and make one of them "home". I was going to take that further and try to make the link url equal to $serendipityBaseURL and the link text equal to $CONST.HOMEPAGE..... assuming that worked somewhere between the config.inc.php and language files.
I think some of Abdussammad's template have this, so you could check those. However, I'm not really sure if it were his - I've seen it somewhere for sure.

And Dave, yes, I think it would be nice to at least demonstrate the use of the selected link in one of the colorsets. Anyone's fine with me.

YL
Don Chambers
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Post by Don Chambers »

OK - vote appears 2:1, so I guess this thing gets excluded from BP.

FWIW - the existing colorsets could use some revisions. Still problems in IE6, definitely problems if users have a large text size, and several instances of negative margins to mitigate positioning problems. Also issues with the horizontal navbar in the purple colorset. I fixed them all in this grey scheme, plus plugged a few other holes no one likely knew existed. CSS is significantly cleaner, so perhaps that can be the contribution of this exercise, unless Dave has resolved these problems already.

IMHO BP cannot be released without ANY colorsets, because demonstrating that particular capability is important.

Anyway - moving on..... I have never seen anyone accomplish the home link in the manner we are discussing. I have seen it hard coded that way as the FIRST link in a UL, followed by others that can change via config.inc.php. In fact, my never released template does it this way.... I would not recommend it though as it requires an index.tpl revision should, for whatever reason, someone want to revise or remove it... unless that particular limitation is one we are content with.

Speaking of UL's...... it occurs to me that we might, indeed, have an unnecessary DIV for the navbar, and if we all agree, now is the time to deal with it since these colorsets are being finalized. Within index.tpl:

Code: Select all

<div id="sitenav" class="snbelow">
   <a name="skipnav"></a>
   <ul>
     {foreach from=$navlinks item="navlink"}
     <li{if $currpage==$navlink.href} class="currentpage"{/if}><a href="{$navlink.href}" title="{$navlink.title}">{$navlink.title}</a></li>
     {/foreach}
   </ul>
</div><!-- closes #sitenav -->
Is there really anything to be gained by wrapping the UL with a DIV, or can we just give the UL the id/class combo, and eliminate the div? Even if we could, do we bother?
=Don=
d_cee
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Post by d_cee »

Hi guys

All files on s9y-bp are the latest versions

@Don
The bp coloursets on s9y-bp are my latest files. If you have some improvements to them you could edit the files on the site and add your code.

As for the 'selected' home link. I realise that this has to be coded, as Don says, in the index.tpl but it can be altered, hidden or 'removed' with CSS so I don't see that as a problem.

I can't see any reason to remove the div that contains the navbar. It's structurally better to have the ul contained in a div - and better for styling!

cheers

Dave
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

Don Chambers wrote:OK - vote appears 2:1, so I guess this thing gets excluded from BP.
Just see yours as the first (of hopefully many) graphical templates based on bp. You're gonna be a pioneer :)
Don Chambers wrote:FWIW - the existing colorsets could use some revisions. Still problems in IE6, definitely problems if users have a large text size, and several instances of negative margins to mitigate positioning problems. Also issues with the horizontal navbar in the purple colorset. I fixed them all in this grey scheme, plus plugged a few other holes no one likely knew existed. CSS is significantly cleaner, so perhaps that can be the contribution of this exercise, unless Dave has resolved these problems already.
I wish you'd point out these things a little more in detail, so we could follow you. However, I'm downloading the latest files right now and will do some testing later.
Don Chambers wrote:Speaking of UL's...... it occurs to me that we might, indeed, have an unnecessary DIV for the navbar, and if we all agree, now is the time to deal with it since these colorsets are being finalized.
I don't think this is unnecessary since it holds together the ul and the skiplink. Plus, as Dave said, it gives people extra possibilities in terms of styling. If you wanted to go after that kind of divs, you'll need lots of time since s9y is loaded with these ...

YL
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Post by yellowled »

d_cee wrote:All files on s9y-bp are the latest versions
Hm. Judging from a quick glance I'd say the only file which has changed from my latest snapshot is purple_style.css, is that true? Also, there are some images in img used in the purple colorset which are .gif. I think we should convert those to .png for consistency.

Edit: Oh, and you have an image (link_arrow.gif) referenced in blue_style.css which is not in the img folder ..? Plus, there are images which don't seem to be used, i.e. body_bg.gif?

So I've updated the zipfile at the usual location, but not the files on s9y-bp since I didn't want to confuse anything. I suggest strong testing on this snapshot over the weekend and reporting back on monday - at least I will probably not be able to add anything before monday :)

YL
Don Chambers
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Post by Don Chambers »

Hang on - I'm confused. WHERE do I get the latest colorsets? Is there a download area on s9y-bp that I have missed?

Do you guys want me to identify everything I have corrected that would also correct the green, blue & purple colorsets, or do you want me to actually change each of those stylesheets and send them to one or both of you? Don't want to step on Dave's toes, so not sure which direction to take.

Also - Dave, the s9y-bp template does not display correctly in ie6, however, there seems to have been improvements in that regard since yesterday. If/when you are done, I can bang on it with my ie6 tools to get you fixes, but do not want to do that until you have exhausted your efforts.

OK on the UL within the DIV. Sounds like we leave it alone.

What is the verdict on this home link thing? a) Hard code it into index.tpl, with all other links being editable in config.inc.php or b) just make "home" the first link via the language file and let the user provide their actual URL?
=Don=
d_cee
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Post by d_cee »

yellowled wrote: I'd say the only file which has changed from my latest snapshot is purple_style.css, is that true? Also, there are some images in img used in the purple colorset which are .gif. I think we should convert those to .png for consistency.
The only file I have changed is the purple one, I decided not to make any more additions to blue and green. Feel free to change the images.
yellowled wrote: Oh, and you have an image (link_arrow.gif) referenced in blue_style.css which is not in the img folder ..? Plus, there are images which don't seem to be used, i.e. body_bg.gif?
Any unused images in the img folder can be deleted now, they were for the bp template only. I thought I'd removed link_arrow.gif from the blue css file, I'll check when I get home that I uploaded the latest file - or just delete it.
Don Chambers wrote:WHERE do I get the latest colorsets? Is there a download area on s9y-bp that I have missed?

I sent you ftp login details for s9y-bp so you can download or access the files.
Don Chambers wrote:do you want me to actually change each of those stylesheets

I'm fine with that, there's no point in duplicating each others work. :-)

I'm still working on the s9y-bp template whenever I've time so I guess it'll change again yet. I'll let you know when I've done so you can check it out in IE6

cheers

Dave
yellowled
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Post by yellowled »

d_cee wrote:
Don Chambers wrote:WHERE do I get the latest colorsets? Is there a download area on s9y-bp that I have missed?

I sent you ftp login details for s9y-bp so you can download or access the files.
If you're unfamiliar with ftp, just use the latest zipfile, it already has the latest colorsets plus my latest additions.

We'll see who deletes what from where :wink: I probably won't get much done over the weekend. However, I'll be back monday with some test results. Have a good weekend, guys.

YL
Don Chambers
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Post by Don Chambers »

Guys - I never received ftp details. I'm not sure that even bothers me at the moment. I am concerned about revisions getting out of hand. I think they need to be maintained by a single source, much as YL has been doing up until now. I suggest he be the only one to continue to modify the "official" version.

I have been working my grey colorset revisions into the purple one as a starting point. Most/all of these revisions need to find their way into the blue and green colorsets as well. The vast majority of these changes do not change the overall appearance, but rather make the css much cleaner.

In the process, I discovered a rather interesting IE problem. The problem surfaces in sidebar navigation (ie #sbsitenav) and its components. For reference, look at this image: http://chicagoloopcruise.com/library/bp ... proble.png

The title floating above the nav components is easy to solve in css, and I have done that (again - all negative margins have been eliminated).

However, turns out that this IE problem is NOT css for a change, it is HTML. Seems to be a white-space issue, and you can get more info here: http://archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/34872

The net interpretation as it relates to our code is that, for ALL instances of sidebar navigation, the entire <UL> *MUST* exist on a single line (there is actually another way to handle it, but this works best). No breaks, no spaces. Nothing.

YL - cut and past this exactly as it appears into index.tpl... again, single line, no spaces, no line feeds, nothing - just a single line!!! For each instance of sidebar navigation.

Code: Select all

<ul>{foreach from=$navlinks item="navlink"}<li{if $currpage==$navlink.href} class="currentpage"{/if}><a href="{$navlink.href}" title="{$navlink.title}">{$navlink.title}</a></li>{/foreach}</ul>
I will wrap up my other changes to the purple stylesheet, then forward that to Dave. It will have a comment line for everything I propose changing complete with the rationale, so Dave can decide whether or not to make those changes. The exact same changes can then be made to the green and blue stylesheets, assuming, the changes are appropriate to those stylesheets.

Anyway, this stuff might not sound like a lot, but this has been 2 solid days of hard won modifications that I believe seriously improve the integrity of BP.

EDIT: I also suggest a comment be placed before this code explaining the need for it to remain on a single line.
=Don=
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Post by Don Chambers »

Email sent to YL & d_cee making the index.tpl change mentioned above as well as changes to all 3 colorsets. Let me know if you do not receive it.
=Don=
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Post by Don Chambers »

One other thing regarding those colorsets I sent out. Need the following:

Code: Select all

#serendipity_banner {clear: both}
Without that, the navbar wipes out part of the banner when the navbar is located above the banner. Did not notice that until this morning.

I am also wondering if this addition, plus a few of the other lines of code in the colorset.css files should be in style.css and/or base.css.
=Don=
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